12 May 07
3 edits
Originally posted by TheSkipperThis discussion reminds me of the discussion we are having in the thread "First they came ....." in which the notion of "Lives not worth living" is an essential part.
....... I figure that I have more value to society, due to my social ties than my infant whose only social tie is to me and his mother. I have people who love me, people who count on me and I actively participate in my society. By any accounting I can think of, I’m more valuable.
12 May 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperBecause you are only a shell.
Consider the following scenario:
You are the father/mother of an infant, and find yourself in a circumstance where, in order for one of you to survive, the other must be sacrificed otherwise you both die. It is guaranteed that if you allow one of the two of you to die the other will live.
Do you sacrifice yourself for the infant? Why?
I do not ...[text shortened]... they grow in 'value' and then at a certain age begin decreasing in value? Or am I just insane?
You are what your DNA uses to keep existing. You and your child are only the train in which the DNA is riding. And since, statistically for your DNA anyways, your child has a higher chance of lasting longer than you, you will readily sacrifice your carriage for the longer-term option.
Interesting would be if a grandparent would sacrifice their life for a grandchild.
12 May 07
Originally posted by ivanhoeYes and yes.
- Some people are apparently more "valuable" in your perspective than others. Correct ?
- Some lives are worth living more than other lives. Correct ?
ivanhoe, would you sacrifice yourself for just anyone? If not, then somewhere along the line you make a value judgement (whether thats what you want to call it or not).
12 May 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperPeople are born self-centered and most stay that way. Perhaps you are no more self-centered than average, perhaps you are more. You are however, likely more self-centered than most who would sacrifice themselves for their infant. If you look back on your life, you should be able to understand how you are less self-centered than you once were. If you continue to gain maturity, you'll come to understand just how self-centered you are now. If you gain enough maturity, you'll have the wisdom to want to accelerate the process.
There are many people I would give my own life to save I don;t understand why i must be considered self-centered just because (from my current perspective) my infant would not be one of them.
13 May 07
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDo you consider it to be immoral or 'wrong' for a parent to not be willing to sacrifice themselves for thier infant in the scenario I outlined?
People are born self-centered and most stay that way. Perhaps you are no more self-centered than average, perhaps you are more. You are however, likely more self-centered than most who would sacrifice themselves for their infant. If you look back on your life, you should be able to understand how you are less self-centered than you once were. If you conti ...[text shortened]... re now. If you gain enough maturity, you'll have the wisdom to want to accelerate the process.
13 May 07
Originally posted by joneschrI agree 100%. Word for word.
What does logic have to do with it?
I'm having trouble seeing why you think this is a decision based on logic. If there were a way to save both child and parent, and you choose to sacrifice both despite having the desire to save both, that would be illogical.
But here, the decision seems more emotionally based than based on logic. If anything, I w ...[text shortened]... nt has already done so.
This is really an ethical and emotional decision, not a logical one.
13 May 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperAs a parent you have a duty to protect the life of your child to the best of your ability, and most parents have that built into them already somehow, although not all do. If there's a fire upstairs and the baby is sleeping upstairs, most don't go outside and hope the fire department arrives in time, but will run upstairs and try to save the baby. But it is very good that we live in a day and age that those who don't want children can choose not to have them without it being a big deal. It's good that you know that about yourself. But you're right in that if you actually became a parent, you might feel differently.
Okay, I can dig it. However, I'm talking about an infant here, I do not have a typical relationship with him/her...I'm sure I love him/her but not like I love my firends, my wife, my sister etc. (of course, this is speculative since I don't have kids)
I should mention that after sacrificing my infant to save my own skin I'm sure I would feel horribly ...[text shortened]... make it out to be. (again, likely a product of my not having a child myself, I suppose).
13 May 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperI think the reason why is simple.
I don't think I have a point. Just trying to figure out why I seem to be abnormal.
Any reason why you didn't answer the question?
You've never looked into the eyes of your first born. If and when you do, I think you'll see thing differently.
Just my opinion based on my experence. Almost every man i've ever known reacts the same way when they have a child of there own. Your life changes .. forever. You are no longer the center of the universe, someone needs you, someone you are responsible for. Many men "grow up" overnight and are able to see beyond themselves for the first time.