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25 Jun 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyJer 17:9
Which other versions?
9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
NIV
Jer 17:9
9 Crooked [is] the heart above all things, And it [is] incurable — who doth know it?
YLT
Amplified Bible..
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly perverse and corrupt and severely, mortally sick! Who can know it [perceive, understand, be acquainted with his own heart and mind]?
25 Jun 13
Originally posted by JS357Descartes messed up.
All by itself, the statement "You think" or Descartes "I think..." sets up the conclusion in favor of dualism. And then treating "I act" and "I eat" differently than "I think" sets it off in the direction of mind-body dualism.
Descartes should have said "Thinking is happening, therefore _______________" and explored what logically followed. I thing, the log ...[text shortened]... any verb) as a statement of an entity doing something that is not that entity.
I Think, therefore I Am (an accurate statement).
25 Jun 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterWell done. Each spells out the absolute depravity of man.
Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
NIV
Jer 17:9
9 Crooked [is] the heart above all things, And it [is] incurable — who doth know it?
YLT
Amplified Bible..
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly perverse and corrupt and severely, mortally sick! Who can know it [perceive, understand, be acquainted with his own heart and mind]?
25 Jun 13
My view is that what we think, tells us who we are. But who we are, is much more complicated than that. What we think we think, are only the conscious thoughts at the surface of a very complicated brain. I am often amazed by just how autonomous my brain and body can be when I am thinking of something particular. I can read aloud, drive, type, and do many other highly complex tasks all without actually thinking about them ie without conscious thought.
25 Jun 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIf I see a drowning man and think "I will save him" and then sit down whilst he drowns.
[b]You Are What You Think"
You may be judged by others for your overt behavior but you are what you think. You are not what you do; your acts and deeds reflect who and what you are within the mentality of your soul. Your attitudes and values influence, motivate and determine your verbal expression and social behavior. The human soul is the ...[text shortened]... : Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee." Proverbs 23:7 (KJV)[/b]
Am I excused because I believed I could levitate him out of the water with the power of my mind?
25 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by twhitehead"My view is that what we think, tells us [reveals] who we are.
My view is that what we think, tells us who we are. But who we are, is much more complicated than that. What we think we think, are only the conscious thoughts at the surface of a very complicated brain. I am often amazed by just how autonomous my brain and body can be when I am thinking of something particular. I can read aloud, drive, type, and do many ...[text shortened]... ther highly complex tasks all without actually thinking about them ie without conscious thought.
But who we are, is much more complicated than that. [in what ways?]
What we think we think, are only the conscious thoughts at the surface of a very complicated brain. [agree; subconscious activity is awesome]
I am often amazed by just how autonomous my brain and body can be when I am thinking of something particular. I can read aloud, drive, type, and do many other highly complex tasks all without actually thinking about them ie without conscious thought." [created or evolved?] (twhitehead]
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25 Jun 13
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYes it does. But what I found interesting is that it is mortally sick, incurable.
Well done. Each spells out the absolute depravity of man.
Man can put on band aids, but in the end it is still sick and cannot be made whole until he comes to the Lord and receives a new heart.
Notice in this verse..
Jer 13:23
23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.
NKJV
The sick heart cannot help but do what is wrong. You can take a pig and bathe it, dress it up, etc. But what is the first thing it will do? Go wallow in the mire. Why?, because that is it's nature.
Ezek 18:31
Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit.
NIV
Ezek 36:26-27
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
NKJV
When we are born again, we receive holy spirit, Christ in you, a new heart, a new spirit....
Rom 8:
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
NKJV
I thank God for saving me from the depravity I was in. I think differently now. When I think back to the way I used to be, I don't recognize myself!
Originally posted by checkbaiter"I thank God for saving me from the depravity I was in. I think differently now. When I think back to the way I used to be, I don't recognize myself!" (checkbaiter)
Yes it does. But what I found interesting is that it is mortally sick, incurable.
Man can put on band aids, but in the end it is still sick and cannot be made whole until he comes to the Lord and receives a new heart.
Notice in this verse..
Jer 13:23
23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Then may you also do good who are a I think differently now. When I think back to the way I used to be, I don't recognize myself!
"But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God'." Matthew 4:4 (NASB)
"I will bow down toward Your holy temple And give thanks to Your name for Your loving kindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your word according to all Your name." Psalm 138:2 (NASB)
"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect." Romans 12:2 (NASB)
"Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day." 2 Corinthians 4:16 (NASB)
"20 But you did not learn Christ in this way, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth." Ephesians 4:20-24 (NASB)
God commands the Christian to be inwardly transformed; a daily renewing of the mind by learning and applying the Word of God is required. Bible Doctrine accurately taught provides spiritual nourishment essential for growth to maturity in Christ. (gb)
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26 Jun 13
Originally posted by LemonJello"But, it seems your point is that a skeptic with respect to 'I' could simply deny the antecedent; whereas the same skeptic would not be able to deny your alternative "thinking is happening". Is this what you mean? "All by itself, the statement "You think" or Descartes "I think..." sets up the conclusion in favor of dualism.
I don't see how. Statements like "You think..." and "I think..." are, by themselves, quite consistent with monism. Dualists and monists can employ such statements alike.
[quote]And then treating "I act" and "I eat" differen ...[text shortened]... stitution is not simply reducible to what one does.
That's pretty much it. I'm denying that "thinking is happening" implies "a thinker exists" all by itself. There is needing something to be shown to make the action of thinking imply the existence of a thinker, while not evoking dualism.
If statements like "I think" are consistent with monism, it follows that thinker and thought are of the same substance, and are of the same substance as everything else if there is anything else, for example, if there is a "thought about" to distinguish from the other two." Right? I'm cool with that. I don't know how it works for GB's ideas stated here.
Sorry to be so brief, your comments deserve more.
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26 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAbsolutely! Amen...🙂
"I thank God for saving me from the depravity I was in. I think differently now. When I think back to the way I used to be, I don't recognize myself!" (checkbaiter)
"But He answered and said, “It is written, [b]‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God'." Matthew 4:4 (NASB)
"I will bow down tow ht provides spiritual nourishment essential for growth to maturity in Christ. (gb)[/b]
26 Jun 13
I think it is also essential to recognise that if I am what I think, then who I am changes from moment to moment and can be affected by external influences, from the obvious, the the more subtle (such as hormones).
Also if you suffer a head injury, or a stroke, or alzheimer's, who you are might change quite dramatically.
26 Jun 13
1 edit
Originally posted by twhitehead"I think it is also essential to recognise that if I am what I think, then who I am changes from moment to moment and can be affected by external influences..." (twhitehead) < Yep.
I think it is also essential to recognise that if I am what I think, then who I am changes from moment to moment and can be affected by external influences, from the obvious, the the more subtle (such as hormones).
Also if you suffer a head injury, or a stroke, or alzheimer's, who you are might change quite dramatically.
Neuroplasticity enables the brain to rewire its 'cortical real estate' [wiki] and change, as new information is obtained + assimilated. The 'You' in "You Are What You Think" is dynamic and evolving as learning and new discovery occurs. (gb)