“Jesus Saves” A popular evangelical slogan from years past, with its emphasis clearly on Jesus doing the saving.
The Bible says this about all people:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
Romans 3:11-12
So how does “Jesus Save” us?
If no one seeks god then the salvation of each person requires divine intervention, but what does that intervention consist of and why are the vast majority of people paying it no heed?
02 Apr 23
@divegeester saidIt's interesting that Jesus did not say this.
The Bible says this about all people:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
Romans 3:11-12
Perhaps Jesus, losing control of the narrative, should have returned in the C1st AD in order to nip the misanthropic and impotent Paulism in the bud.
It would seem Jesus also lost control of the narrative when the ludicrous Book of Revelation got foisted on Christendom too ~ a book in which the figure who is supposedly Jesus is unrecognizable; a book that simply served the purposes of corporate Christianity.
@fmf saidThe "returned" Christ in Revelation is not the same character as Jesus the Christ as a human. In Revelation we see him in his full glory as the right hand of God, with full vanquishing vengeance towards evil.
Perhaps Jesus, losing control of the narrative, should have returned in the C1st AD in order to nip the misanthropic and impotent Paulism in the bud.
It would seem Jesus also lost control of the narrative when the ludicrous Book of Revelation got foisted on Christendom too ~ a book in which the figure who is supposedly Jesus is unrecognizable; a book that simply served the purposes of corporate Christianity.
Gospels = human role
Revelation = divine role
Yes, there's a difference, they are not meant to be the same. The latter is more closely aligned with the Jews' idea of a savior. Christ in Revelation is the warrior-savior they've been waiting for.
PS. There is no such thing as "corporate Christianity". Christianity does not serve corporate interests, and any "Christianity" that attempts to do so is not Christianity.
02 Apr 23
@suzianne saidThe no true Scotsman (you float here) is in full play in your country where corporate Christianity rules the airwaves blowing it trumpet of corporate greed, tax evasion and with it own brand of mega rich mouthpieces.
There is no such thing as "corporate Christianity". Christianity does not serve corporate interests, and any "Christianity" that attempts to do so is not Christianity.
02 Apr 23
@divegeester saidAnd, in full view of what I wrote, that is NOT Christianity.
The no true Scotsman (you float here) is in full play in your country where corporate Christianity rules the airwaves blowing it trumpet of corporate greed, tax evasion and with it own brand of mega rich mouthpieces.
@suzianne saidOf course there is corporate Christianity. One manifestation of it is HQ'd in The Vatican and has bishops stationed all over the world.
There is no such thing as "corporate Christianity". Christianity does not serve corporate interests, and any "Christianity" that attempts to do so is not Christianity.
02 Apr 23
@suzianne saidYes, I am well aware of how Christians rationalize the [disputed] inclusion of Revelation in the context of their fealty to the Biblical canon.
The "returned" Christ in Revelation is not the same character as Jesus the Christ as a human. In Revelation we see him in his full glory as the right hand of God, with full vanquishing vengeance towards evil.
02 Apr 23
@suzianne saidA corporation is a group of people organized and authorized to act as a single entity and recognized as such in law and by society.
There is no such thing as "corporate Christianity".
Christianity has many tens of 1,000s of them.
sonship posted here about the theology propagated by one particular manifestation of corporate Christianity. So did galveston75 with regard to the corporate entity he was a member of. So did Philokalia having converted to a particular denomination that existed as a corporate identity defined by doctrinal matters and its own hierarchy of clerics.
02 Apr 23
@divegeester saidThe same Paul 2 chapters down in Romans 5 :12-21, explains that God sent Christ to die to reverse the sin of Adam which came upon all men. This is why all men are sinners because they were born of sinful flesh. But Jesus's death bestowed upon ALL MEN the free gift of justification .
“Jesus Saves” A popular evangelical slogan from years past, with its emphasis clearly on Jesus doing the saving.
The Bible says this about all people:
[i]“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even on ...[text shortened]... ut what does that intervention consist of and why are the vast majority of people paying it no heed?
The doctrine that faith in God must be expressed in order to be justified by the death of Christ is an erroneous doctrine. All people from Adam into the future have been given the free gift of justification.
Justification does not mean eternal life. It means an opportunity to have eternal life.
02 Apr 23
@divegeester saidCorporate Christianity rules the airwaves blowing it trumpet of corporate greed, tax evasion and with it own brand of mega-rich mouthpieces
The no true Scotsman (you float here) is in full play in your country where corporate Christianity rules the airwaves blowing it trumpet of corporate greed, tax evasion and with it own brand of mega rich mouthpieces.
When I use the term "corporate Christianity", I am not ONLY talking about the stuff you mention above. I am referring more broadly to ecclesiastical matters and their effect on how denominations are differentiated.
02 Apr 23
@divegeester said"Divine intervention" = "grace"
“Jesus Saves” A popular evangelical slogan from years past, with its emphasis clearly on Jesus doing the saving.
The Bible says this about all people:
[i]“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even on ...[text shortened]... ut what does that intervention consist of and why are the vast majority of people paying it no heed?
So "grace" makes everlasting life possible.
While Jesus explains what gaining it entails.
02 Apr 23
@fmf saidAgain, any organization not set up as Christ would, is not Christian.
Of course there is corporate Christianity. One manifestation of it is HQ'd in The Vatican and has bishops stationed all over the world.
I refer you back to my first post on the concept.