Originally posted by no1marauderDid you see the 60 minutes piece on him? Did he seem believable to you? I felt that he was lying.
If you came in with the bias that you obviously did, whatever happened there reinforced your pre-conceived notions. There still isn't any evidence at all, besides the statements of an admitted felon, that Clemens used steroids. And there is ZERO evidence that Clemens post-Boston performance was effected by anything but his own ability.
Originally posted by MrHandWho cares what you think? Some actual evidence would be nice.
Did you see the 60 minutes piece on him? Did he seem believable to you? I felt that he was lying.
EDIT: This whole subject was hashed out in a couple of threads in January, mostly in this one: http://www.timeforchess.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=84517&page=1
Originally posted by shortcircuitFavre would not have made it as a Jet? Look at his history in Atlanta. There is more to the NFL then talent. Farve thought that his talent alone was enough. He failed to apply it in Atlanta. The NFL is more then speed or strength. It take NFL level skill or talent. Still you have to apply yourself. Farve had a second chance in Green Bay. It is too bad for Atlanta that Farve had too learn a lesson the hard way.
You know, Farve would have been a NYJ, probably for his career, if he had only lasting one pick longer in the draft. Atlanta grabbed him right in front of the Jets who were poised to take him on the next pick. Then Atlanta trades him to GB and the rest is history. So maybe it has come full circle, so to speak. While I can certainly understand the frustr ...[text shortened]... d up on Aaron Rodgers if he doesn't come out of the gate at full tilt boogie will be enormous.
Originally posted by gambit3Very true. Atlanta might never have had to suffer the Vick fiasco had Favre come through early on.
Favre would not have made it as a Jet? Look at his history in Atlanta. There is more to the NFL then talent. Farve thought that his talent alone was enough. He failed to apply it in Atlanta. The NFL is more then speed or strength. It take NFL level skill or talent. Still you have to apply yourself. Farve had a second chance in Green Bay. It is too bad for Atlanta that Farve had too learn a lesson the hard way.
Originally posted by gambit3I hate to break this to you chief, but you have to apply yourself in ANY professional sport. Talent is a great asset, but there have been several players who were little known and arguably short on talent but long on heart and desire that made it big in the game. Pete Rose is a prime example in baseball. Calvin Murphy in basketball. Phil Simms in football. Just as a few examples. Have you ever noticed how many Heisman award winners wash out in the NFL? The same is true for Golden spikes winners, etc.... How many first round draft choices bomb out and how many low round reaches end up excelling? So your arguement is really a no brainer. The fact is, Farve's time in Atlanta was doomed from the beginning because he had a numbnuts for a head coach and the system didn't work. Farve was disgruntled as well. He was never destined to be David Carr.
Favre would not have made it as a Jet? Look at his history in Atlanta. There is more to the NFL then talent. Farve thought that his talent alone was enough. He failed to apply it in Atlanta. The NFL is more then speed or strength. It take NFL level skill or talent. Still you have to apply yourself. Farve had a second chance in Green Bay. It is too bad for Atlanta that Farve had too learn a lesson the hard way.
As everyone knows there is pleanty of evidence against Clemens. The Mitchell report is an independent investigation lead by a former Senator. It is a neutral as can be imagined and it had pleanty to say about Clemens guilt.
The Mitchell report explained what most fans could clearly see: in his last 4 years in Boston how could a guy go from below .500 to winning Cy Young awards again. Suffice it to say performance enhancing drugs work.
Finally Clemens was always known for his legendary seceret workouts. His Texas buddy Andy Pettitte even went from the Yannkees to Houston and back with him acknowldges use of performance enhancing drugs. Seems very plausibale that Pettitte was introduced to this Clemens -- as McNamee claims.
Finally McNamee was felon -- but one who Clemens assigned. Clemens wasn't a guy on Medicaid who had only one choice of doctors or trainers. He had access to anyone. Even team assigne ones. Of all the trainers in the world Clemens chose to stick with McNamee. The only logical conclusion is that Clemens wanted to cheat and McNamee was willing to help him.
I guess if you feel Senators lie, are willing to ignore your own eyes,feel that Pettitte was completely unconnected and McNamee told the truth about Pettitte (but lied about Clemens), feel that the evidence McNamee presented about Clemens is completely fabricated and that US proscutors are on a witch hunt againt Clemens then the guy could be innocent but to say there is no eveidence is just untrue.
Originally posted by myteamtrulystinksWrong thread, dope.
As everyone knows there is pleanty of evidence against Clemens. The Mitchell report is an independent investigation lead by a former Senator. It is a neutral as can be imagined and it had pleanty to say about Clemens guilt.
The Mitchell report explained what most fans could clearly see: in his last 4 years in Boston how could a guy go from below ...[text shortened]... againt Clemens then the guy could be innocent but to say there is no eveidence is just untrue.