06 Dec 07
Originally posted by darvlayThe year before Beckett was traded, he was 15-8 with a 3.38 ERA. Prior to that he had pitched 6 games in the postseason and had a 2.11 ERA.
Here's a similar trade the Marlins performed with the Red Sox a couple years ago:
Thanksgiving Day, 2005, Josh Beckett was traded to the Red Sox along with third baseman Mike Lowell and relief pitcher Guillermo Mota for minor league prospects shortstop Hanley Ramírez and pitchers Aníbal Sánchez, Jesús Delgado and Harvey García.
How did this trade work out for the Sox, hmm?
Last year, Willis was 10-15 with a 5.17 ERA. He has pitched 7 games in the postseason; his ERA in those games is 8.53.
Here's an apple; there's an orange, Darv.
06 Dec 07
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeIt does make sense for both sides, but for different reasons. I will re-quote my earlier statement:
everybody keeps talking about Detroit; wth did Florida get? It seems to me like they got robbed. I mean why on earth would you ever even consider trading Cabrera, 24 years old and a future hall of famer, for farm players. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone with more baseball knowledge can explain this to me because I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense.
I agree with you on face value, but two things you should consider. First, I believe that barring injury, Andrew Miller will be a better pitcher than Dontrelle Willis (although not right now). Cameron Maybin is also very highly thought of, although untested in the show.
The second thing is that Florida proposed the trade to Detroit EXACTLY as it went down. All Detroit had to do was say yes. Detroit feels they can win now and were willing to mortgage a bit of their future for present time help. Florida wasn't going to win it if they kept both Willis and Cabrera, and they save a considerable amount of bankroll in the process. Furthermore, as they sink lower in the standings, they gain better draft position.
I think the deal made sense for both sides.
06 Dec 07
Originally posted by darvlayEdgar Renteria, not Carlos Guillen. My mistake.
Potential Tigers Line-up:
Granderson CF
Polanco 2B
Ordonez RF
Cabrera 3B
Sheffield DH
Guillen SS
Rodriguex C
Thames LF
Casey 1B
Verlander SP
Rogers SP
Robertson SP
Willis SP
Bonderman SP
Zumaya RP
Rodney RP
Jones RP
07 Dec 07
Originally posted by shortcircuitWord is that Detroit didn't really want Willis, but that Florida insisted on including him because he's salary arbitration eligible and his prior years might lead to a sizeable increase. Reportedly, Detroit is already trying to dump Willis.
It does make sense for both sides, but for different reasons. I will re-quote my earlier statement:
I agree with you on face value, but two things you should consider. First, I believe that barring injury, Andrew Miller will be a better pitcher than Dontrelle Willis (although not right now). Cameron Maybin is also very highly thought of, although unt ...[text shortened]... the standings, they gain better draft position.
I think the deal made sense for both sides.
07 Dec 07
Originally posted by myteamtrulystinksMaybe, maybe not. It doesn't speak well for his trade value that the Tigers are anxious to get rid of him before he pitches an inning for them (maybe they should keep him as a DH; he hits about as good as most of their overrated lineup).
and if they trade Willis they will get a lot of prospects back.
07 Dec 07
Originally posted by no1marauderInteresting...
Word is that Detroit didn't really want Willis, but that Florida insisted on including him because he's salary arbitration eligible and his prior years might lead to a sizeable increase. Reportedly, Detroit is already trying to dump Willis.
Other rumour: The Jays have offered Alex Rios to the Giants for pitcher Tim Lincecum!
07 Dec 07
I'd take Willis in a heart beat. People have bad years. The Tigers won't just give him away.
Beckett (who some people incorrectly think is as good as any pitcher in the majors) had an era over 5 era in a full season in '06 and he obviously was very good last year.
Andruw Jones had a terrible year. Still signed for 18M/ yr
Mike Lowell had a terrible year before the Red Sox got him. Everyone said the Red Sox were forced to take his contract. Worked out pretty great.
07 Dec 07
Originally posted by no1marauderIt would surprise me if they dumped him unless they got alot for him. I like his upside far more than Kenny Rogers who will probably be gone after this year. Willis would probably flourish under Jimmy Leyland's teaching as well. Plus he will be re-united with Ivan Rodriguez as a battery mate. Pudge makes pitchers better because he calls a great game and is among the best behind the dish. I seriously doubt they will trade him, but stranger things have happened.
Word is that Detroit didn't really want Willis, but that Florida insisted on including him because he's salary arbitration eligible and his prior years might lead to a sizeable increase. Reportedly, Detroit is already trying to dump Willis.
07 Dec 07
Originally posted by myteamtrulystinksThe Red Sox WERE forced to take Lowell in the deal. One of the greatest forces in history. If you want to see when most down years occur, it is usually the first year of a long term contract. The best year is usually the last year of the contract. Go figure.
I'd take Willis in a heart beat. People have bad years. The Tigers won't just give him away.
Beckett (who some people incorrectly think is as good as any pitcher in the majors) had an era over 5 era in a full season in '06 and he obviously was very good last year.
Andruw Jones had a terrible year. Still signed for 18M/ yr
Mike Lowe ...[text shortened]... t him. Everyone said the Red Sox were forced to take his contract. Worked out pretty great.
07 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by shortcircuitAn interesting rumour is that the Mets and Tigers are talking about both Pudge and Willis going to NY. http://www.metsblog.com/2007/12/05/buzz-willis-offered-to-mets-with-pudge/
It would surprise me if they dumped him unless they got alot for him. I like his upside far more than Kenny Rogers who will probably be gone after this year. Willis would probably flourish under Jimmy Leyland's teaching as well. Plus he will be re-united with Ivan Rodriguez as a battery mate. Pudge makes pitchers better because he calls a great game and ...[text shortened]... best behind the dish. I seriously doubt they will trade him, but stranger things have happened.
It makes sense; Pudge is rapidly declining as a hitter (9 walks and only 11 HRs and 63 RBI in over 500 ABs) and a catcher (only .309 runners caught stealing last year) while still getting paid $13 million. The Mets need a catcher and don't worry about money as much as the Tigers.
07 Dec 07
Originally posted by myteamtrulystinksMike Lowell was absolute ordinary on the road last year; playing in Fenway gave him inflated numbers overall.
I'd take Willis in a heart beat. People have bad years. The Tigers won't just give him away.
Beckett (who some people incorrectly think is as good as any pitcher in the majors) had an era over 5 era in a full season in '06 and he obviously was very good last year.
Andruw Jones had a terrible year. Still signed for 18M/ yr
Mike Lowe ...[text shortened]... t him. Everyone said the Red Sox were forced to take his contract. Worked out pretty great.
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS BA OBP SLG
Home 77 292 53 109 15 1 14 73 24 34 3 0 .373 .418 .575
Away 77 297 26 82 22 1 7 47 29 37 0 2 .276 .339 .428