Sports
22 May 08
23 May 08
Originally posted by jimslyp69No good live sport on free tv here .. we watch rugby up the pub on sky but virtually no real footy because of the time zones. Taken to getting DVDs of best goals etc .. enjoyable.
You watch too much English TV man! 😛
I enjoy the team website and enjoy picking over the banter in here for a different perspective.. it's all fun and informative too.
I had know idea of the cost of those prem players... you could buy Saints team for one of those.... :o not that anyone would.
It certainly seems that a. you have to have a fortune to spend on players and b you have to spend it wisely. It make me wonder which prem team would have the highest point per buck ratio???
ps: Though a Soton nipper.. we lived for two years in Sydenham.. Uncle had the Putney Sweet shop.. love to poke the borax at Mancs.. (even though my other uncle had shoe shop in Chorley for years and years and my In laws are from there too.
23 May 08
Originally posted by RagnorakThe point we were discussing was about spending money wisely. I've shown you that Liverpool have improved (and compared to United) under Benitez who has had less money to spend and started with a far poorer squad.
Nice "facts". Shall we fill in some more detail...
04/05 - 19 points difference
05/06 - 9 points difference
06/07 - 21 points difference
07/08 - 11 points difference.
Only a deluded scouser could see a pattern of improvement in those seemingly random figures.
But so long as you're happy that your team have improved to within 11 points of the top ...[text shortened]... ess, which means that you don't have the funds to compete with the big English clubs.
D
As for ambition, of course I'd like us to have won the Premiership - but I can accept that it might not happen for some time. Quite simply, we do not have the cash to compete for the marquee players that ManU and Chelsea have.
The whole issue of running LFC as a business is way too complicated to get into under the current ownership. However, you must be worried about the £800M of debt that ManUtd have. It would only take a poor season or two to make the interest unpayable.
23 May 08
Originally posted by Angry BoyTorres 24M
Ferdinand £29M
Rooney £28M
Hargreaves £17M
Carrick £17M
Vidic £7M
Evra £7M
Nani £14M
Anderson £14M
Money helps though doesn't it?
Cisse 14M
Doufe 11M
Pongolle+Tellac 10M
Bellamy 6M
Crouch 8M?
Alonso 14M?
Masherano 20M?
Biscan 6M
Kewell 6M
Pennant 7M
Babel 12M
Benayoun 6M
Skrtel 7M
Sissoko 6M?
Garcia 8M
Leiva 6M
Heskey 11M
Kirkland 6M
Hamann 8M
Barmbey 6M
Dudek 5M
Gonzalez 4.5M
Reina 6M
Kuyt 9M
Collymore 9M
Morrientes 6M
Hicks and Gilette - Priceless
Its what you do with it that counts.
Liverpool spend about the same as Manchester United but tend to buy twice as many players at half the price.
Keep swooping for those half price left overs.
23 May 08
Originally posted by Angry BoyI like the fact that you are happy finishing 4th, 11 points behind Manchester United and Trophyless for the last 2 seasons.
Benitez's net transfer dealings are £56.9M in his four years at LFC. Ferguson's is £73.4M for the same period and he didn't start 2004-05 with a team containing the likes of Traore, Smicer, Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou etc
Liverpool finished 11 points behind ManU this season, in 04-05 it was 19 points. So in Rafa's 4 years, Liverpool have closed the gap on Utd ...[text shortened]... irst league season yielded 58 points, this season it was 76.
How do you like them facts?
Thats progress......
23 May 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Angry BoyAgain you are quoting media spin.
The point we were discussing was about spending money wisely. I've shown you that Liverpool have improved (and compared to United) under Benitez who has had less money to spend and started with a far poorer squad.
As for ambition, of course I'd like us to have won the Premiership - but I can accept that it might not happen for some time. Quite simply, w ...[text shortened]... debt that ManUtd have. It would only take a poor season or two to make the interest unpayable.
Liverpool's new owners put no debt on the club, right?
They are the best of friends, right?
The new stadium is on target, right?
If rafa wants snoopy dogg he can have him, right?
Gilette wants to sell to DIC, he's always had Liverpools best interests at heart, right?
Manchester United are worth over 1 billion on the open market I believe, right?
23 May 08
Originally posted by Rooney Once a BlueWhere's the spin?
Again you are quoting media spin.
Liverpool's new owners put no debt on the club, right?
They are the best of friends, right?
The new stadium is on target, right?
If rafa wants snoopy dogg he can have him, right?
Gilette wants to sell to DIC, he's always had Liverpools best interests at heart, right?
Manchester United are worth over 1 billion on the open market I believe, right?
And what the heck has anything else you've said got to do with it.
23 May 08
Originally posted by Angry BoyYour cowboy owners said they put no debt on the club - Is that correct?
Where's the spin?
And what the heck has anything else you've said got to do with it.
The media is reporting the new LFC stadium is in doubt.
Gilette is trying to sellout to DIC and make a quick profit, he says the arabs are ideal for Liverpool, just what the fans want, strange he outbid the Arabs, he's obviously a lifelong Reds fan.
Liverpool have to sell before they can buy, correct?
Coco offered Pennant, Carson, Vonorin and 50,000 pounds for Barry didn't he?
Mahchester United are valued at well over 1 billion, if we have debts of 800M like you said, i'd buy that for a dollar.
23 May 08
Originally posted by Rooney Once a BlueSo, to bring you back to the point.
Your cowboy owners said they put no debt on the club - Is that correct?
The media is reporting the new LFC stadium is in doubt.
Gilette is trying to sellout to DIC and make a quick profit, he says the arabs are ideal for Liverpool, just what the fans want, strange he outbid the Arabs, he's obviously a lifelong Reds fan.
Liverpool have to ...[text shortened]... ed at well over 1 billion, if we have debts of 800M like you said, i'd buy that for a dollar.
Where's the "spin" I've put on anything?
What has the ownership issue got to do with the debate about value for money?
I asked Rag whether he was bothered about the £800M debt, given that ManU is only worth what someone will pay for it. Does that mean I'm happy about Liverpool's situation? No.
23 May 08
Originally posted by Angry Boyyou implied here that Man U have "bought" success which is true to a certain degree but no different to Pool or Chelsea.
Ferdinand £29M
Rooney £28M
Hargreaves £17M
Carrick £17M
Vidic £7M
Evra £7M
Nani £14M
Anderson £14M
Money helps though doesn't it?
You outline that Fergie has spent more than Rafa which may well be true however my point is that Ferguson has spent his money wisely in recent times.
You are measuring your clubs progress by how closer/ further away you are to/ from United.......Such comments is music to the ears of Reds.
As for the amount of money on certain players being ott i.e rio, rooney...........well liverpools best signing in many many years Torres was over 20m.
Liverpool need to go out and be competitive in the transfer market and buy top players such as Torres and forget about bit part players like Voronin, Pennant, Kromkamp and the likes.
If Liverpool can bring in a top wide player and sort out their defence at set pieces they could compete for title next year.
Money doesnt guarantee success.....rotation, defennsive systems, character and style of play are every bit as important.
24 May 08
Originally posted by Doyle78I think you need to read the thread through before you suggest what I've "implied".
you implied here that Man U have "bought" success which is true to a certain degree but no different to Pool or Chelsea.
You outline that Fergie has spent more than Rafa which may well be true however my point is that Ferguson has spent his money wisely in recent times.
You are measuring your clubs progress by how closer/ further away you are to/ fr ...[text shortened]... cess.....rotation, defennsive systems, character and style of play are every bit as important.
The listing of some of the ManU players (and their price tags) who were on the pitch on Weds night was in response to Smiffy's post where he stated (about Chelsea) "just shows you that you cant buy cups". My point being, without a serious amount of money a team isn't likely to be winning the CL (or the Premiership for that matter). Had ManU not spent some serious cash themselves in the last few years they probably wouldn't have been on the pitch on Weds night.
Your point wasn't just about Fergie spending wisely - you also implied that Rafa hadn't. The facts of the matter are Fergie has spent more than Rafa in the last 4 seasons and Rafa has closed the gap on ManUtd. Yes, Rafa has bought some duffers (who hasn't?) but they've generally (apart from Kuyt) not been expensive flops (remember Veron?). He has had less money to spend and has had to buy a number of cheaper options to bolster the squad. Until last summer's purchase of Torres, £10M was the most he'd had to spend on one player and that was paid for by the previous chairman not the club.
It may be music to your ears to hear Liverpool fans measuring their progress against United and in points per season terms - but what other than that are we supposed to measure it against? In the 70's & 80's United and all the other sides would have been doing just that with Liverpool.
Given our financial situation, we can't do "a Chelsea" and spend £40M net each season on transfers - so progress is going to have to be acheived somewhat slower. Glory hunters and the press are having a go at Rafa for not winning the league yet. Well, winning a CL and FA cup and finshing 5th, 3rd, 3rd and 4th is a heck of a lot better than Fergie did in his first 4 seasons. He finished 11th twice, in case you don't remember, and the FA Cup win in 1990 (in his fourth season) was his first trophy and probably saved him from the chop. I'm sure you remember the fortnightly chants of "Fergie out" at OT that season?
Rafa's record is even more favourable when you remember that he inherited a squad with Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Heskey, Cisse, Baros, Traore whilst Fergie was able to spend British record (or close) amounts (per position) on Steve Bruce, Jim Leighton, Mark Hughes, Neil Webb, Paul Ince and Gary Pallister in his first 4 seasons. Other than Torres, Rafa has had nowhere near the same amount of money in comparative terms. Finally, it took Ferguson 7 years to win the title - Rafa's had 4 seasons in charge so far.
Please point out where I've said the amount spent on Rio and Rooney was "OTT". And thanks for stating that Torres is Liverpool's best signing in many a year and cost over £20M - although what this actually adds to your argument is unclear.
Money doesn't guarantee success - correct. But it helps, and while Liverpool can't compete with Chelsea and ManU in that department I expect progress to be made steadily. As for rotation, I've dug this up
www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/a_NG156624070808-1304.shtml
so that you can see some facts rather than media spin on Rafa's policy. As for defensive systems or zonal marking as you're probably referring to, yes it has leaked a few goals from set pieces in the 2nd half of this season. However, over the previous season and a half it was proven to be more effective than anyone else's defence against set pieces. However, it can't be all that bad as Reina has just won the Golden Gloves award for the 3rd season in a row. That's the award for keeping the most clean sheets in the Premiership by the way.
Now, go and enjoy your well earned double. Just try to brush up on your knowledge over the summer by reading more than just the tabloids and watching SKY.
24 May 08
Originally posted by Angry BoyThe point we were discussing was about spending money wisely.
The point we were discussing was about spending money wisely. I've shown you that Liverpool have improved (and compared to United) under Benitez who has had less money to spend and started with a far poorer squad.
As for ambition, of course I'd like us to have won the Premiership - but I can accept that it might not happen for some time. Quite simply, w ...[text shortened]... debt that ManUtd have. It would only take a poor season or two to make the interest unpayable.
Really, where was that even mentioned?
I've shown you that Liverpool have improved (and compared to United) under Benitez who has had less money to spend and started with a far poorer squad.
How have you shown that? If we try to deduce a pattern from how many points the Pooh finished behind United, the only resasonable prediction we can make is that they'll finish 15+ points behind them next season.
The whole issue of running LFC as a business is way too complicated to get into under the current ownership.
Why? Current ownership aside, Liverpool's brand should be just as big as United's, if not bigger if we are to listen to Liverpool fans. Why is it that (Pre Glazers) United were able to sign the world's top players without going into debt, while Liverpool are scratching around buying multitudes in the hope that the odd bargain comes good.
However, you must be worried about the £800M of debt that ManUtd have.
Of course I'm worried. It's ridiculous that somebody with no money can buy a healthy business and instantly make it a walking landmine.
It's also ridiculous on your part to compare United to Chelsea. United have run an excellent business and never had to borrow to complete their record breaking transfers. Chelsea have been hugely in the red on the transfer front since Abramovich arrived: One is good business practice, the other is trying to buy trophies... Even a deluded scouser (still waiting for your reply int he thread where you claimed that Liverpool were top in December) such as yourself can see the difference.
D
24 May 08
Originally posted by spurs73How apt that a Spurs fan pops into a thread discussing how money doesn't always buy you success.
why are you worried? Are you going to bale them out with your own money if they got into trouble😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😵😵
edit: sorry Rag...just could not resist!
Apt in an ironic way, that is.
D