08 Jun 11
Originally posted by no1marauderLets say Bosh calls Wade halfway through the 2009-2010 NBA season to vent:
MM: In June 2010, Wade can't entice James or Bosh to want to negotiate with the Heat in July, this is clear from the rules that I have cited.
No, it isn't clear or accurate. What do you mean EXACTLY by "entice?"
Bosh - "Man D-Wade, I gotta score 25 points a night and grab 10 boards just to keep my team in the game...I aint got no help over here!"
Wade - "Its ok CB, we can team up next year and demolish the league. We will be unstoppable! But hey man, don't do anything stupid like get hurt tryin to win games for yo scrub team; you feel me?"
Bosh - "Oh yea dawg don't worry bout me."
Then Bosh proceeds to tank the rest of the season.
The reason the owners don't want players talking about "next year" while they are still under contract is because they want the players to give their full effort night in and night out. The owners don't want players tanking games because they need to sell tickets and they know that the fans won't watch a bad team.
NBA Uniform Player Contract:
5. Conduct
(b) The Player agrees: (i) to give his best services, as well as his loyalty, to the Team, and to play basketball only for the Team and its assignees; (ii) to be neatly and fully attired in public; (iii) to conduct himself on and off the court according to the highest standards of honesty, citizenship, and sportsmanship; and (iv) not to do anything that is materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of the Team or the League.
(f) The Player agrees that he will not, during the term of this Contract, directly or indirectly, entice, induce, or persuade, or attempt to entice, induce, or persuade, any player or coach who is under contract to any NBA team to enter into negotiations for or relating to his services as a basketball player or coach, nor shall he negotiate for or contract for such services, except with the prior written consent of such team. Breach of this subparagraph, in addition to the remedies available to the Team, shall be punishable by fine and/or suspension to be imposed by the Commissioner.
Note that the language in (f) only specifies that players are prohibited from recruiting during the term of their contracts. It does not, however, state when such illicit negotiations should take place in order to make them illegal. Presumably, the negotiations could take place during a legal period, but if the impetus that drove the player to want to negotiate occurred during a prohibited period, then that would still be collusion. The tainting of the player through collusion or recruitment could influence him to act out the remaining part of his contract in bad faith. In other words, if the player feels like he will graze greener pastures in the future, he might tank games in the present.
08 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeBoy, you really are off the deep end.
Lets say Bosh calls Wade halfway through the 2009-2010 NBA season to vent:
Bosh - "Man D-Wade, I gotta score 25 points a night and grab 10 boards just to keep my team in the game...I aint got no help over here!"
Wade - "Its ok CB, we can team up next year and demolish the league. We will be unstoppable! But hey man, don't do anything stupid like e he will graze greener pastures in the future, he might tank games in the present.
You got some tapes of those conversations? And/or ANY proof that Bosh "tanked" games?
09 Jun 11
Originally posted by no1marauderWell first of all, that "conversation" was actually a hypothetical, obviously. You asked me what I meant by a player enticing another player to negotiate with his team and I offered an example. Moving on...
Boy, you really are off the deep end.
You got some tapes of those conversations? And/or ANY proof that Bosh "tanked" games?
Bosh did tank games near the end of the 2009-2010 series. The Toronto GM, Bryan Colangelo, told Fan590 the following during late July 2010:
"Despite limited swelling and any excessive damage on an MRI, he [Bosh] felt like he needed to sit for six more games," Colangelo said on 590 The Fan on Monday. "I'm not even questioning Chris' injury. I'm telling you he was cleared to play subject to tolerance on his part, and the tolerance just apparently wasn't there and he chose not to play."
Bosh injured his ankle on February 17th, 2010 in a game versus the Memphis Grizzlies. According to Colangelo, Bosh was cleared to play for their February 20th game versus the Washington Wizards. However, Bosh couldn't tolerate the pain from his injury and sat out for 6 games until March 7th. That is 15 days! He rested 2 weeks while his team won only 2 of the 6 games during that stretch. Prior to Bosh's injury, the Raptors had won 55% of their games. That is playoff caliber basketball in the Eastern Conference! But get this, when Bosh finally decided to come back, his team only won 38% of their games. That is on him. He was the leader of that team and the Raptors shouldn't have been that bad during the final stretch of the season with him on the floor.
09 Jun 11
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeThis is not evidence Bosh tanked games. At most it shows that a GM (who knew he would lose his best player) wanted to win now and could not care about whether there was a risk of permanent future damage.
Well first of all, that "conversation" was actually a hypothetical, obviously. You asked me what I meant by a player enticing another player to negotiate with his team and I offered an example. Moving on...
Bosh did tank games near the end of the 2009-2010 series. The Toronto GM, Bryan Colangelo, told Fan590 the following during late July 2010:
...[text shortened]... 't have been that bad during the final stretch of the season with him on the floor.
09 Jun 11
Originally posted by quackquackWrong. Colangelo did not know Bosh was leaving during the time period which I allege that Bosh tanked games. Furthermore, the team doc wouldn't have cleared Bosh to play if he felt like there were a substantial risk of future damage to the injured area of Bosh's body.
This is not evidence Bosh tanked games. At most it shows that a GM (who knew he would lose his best player) wanted to win now and could not care about whether there was a risk of permanent future damage.
10 Jun 11
Originally posted by MoneyManMike(1) When a guy does not accept a max offer, you can be pretty sure that he is looking to leave.
Wrong. Colangelo did not know Bosh was leaving during the time period which I allege that Bosh tanked games. Furthermore, the team doc wouldn't have cleared Bosh to play if he felt like there were a substantial risk of future damage to the injured area of Bosh's body.
(2) Team doctors certainly have an incentive to send guys back before they are 100% healthy especially if it is during a playoff run and the guy is not under contract for the team next season.
11 Jun 11
Originally posted by quackquack(1) When did Bosh turn down a max offer?
(1) When a guy does not accept a max offer, you can be pretty sure that he is looking to leave.
(2) Team doctors certainly have an incentive to send guys back before they are 100% healthy especially if it is during a playoff run and the guy is not under contract for the team next season.
(2) What proof do you have that the Toronto team doc is a scum bag?
11 Jun 11
Originally posted by MoneyManMike1) A Toronto source says Bosh turned down a Raptors offer to trade him to Cleveland, which would have given him a max deal, $10 million bigger than the one he took in Miami.
(1) When did Bosh turn down a max offer?
(2) What proof do you have that the Toronto team doc is a scum bag?
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/teams/toronto/chris-bosh-turned-down-offer-from-cavs/
2) The Toronto doctor doesn't have to be a "scum bag" to do what most team doctors do i.e. be loyal to the team.
12 Jun 11
Originally posted by no1marauder[1] That article covers talks about events in July 2010. To prove Quack's argument, you are going to have to find something that indicates that Colangelo knew prior to Feb. 17, 2010 that Bosh was leaving at the end of his contract.
1) A Toronto source says Bosh turned down a Raptors offer to trade him to Cleveland, which would have given him a max deal, $10 million bigger than the one he took in Miami.
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/teams/toronto/chris-bosh-turned-down-offer-from-cavs/
2) The Toronto doctor doesn't have to be a "scum bag" to do what most team doctors do i.e. be loyal to the team.
12 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeWhen a player is due to become an unrestricted free agent, it is always very possible that they may leave their present team. Colangelo knew this as well as anyone so he would have a high degree of motivation to get whatever he could out of Bosh NOW and not be concerned about CB's future health.
[1] That article covers talks about events in July 2010. To prove Quack's argument, you are going to have to find something that indicates that Colangelo knew prior to Feb. 17, 2010 that Bosh was leaving at the end of his contract.
Bosh "tanking it" in 2009-10 had career highs in points and rebounds per game and FG percentage.
12 Jun 11
2 edits
Originally posted by MoneyManMikeI did not say the doctor was a scum bag. I merely said the doctor has an incentive to send Bosh back before he is ready because Bosh had a month left in the uniform.
(1) When did Bosh turn down a max offer?
(2) What proof do you have that the Toronto team doc is a scum bag?
Bosh was clearly going to get very close if not a max deal in his next deal. Any competent organization would have discussed parameters during his last season in Toronto.. If Bosh was going to re-sign at the maximum, there would be no advantage in waiting and not signing immediately. The fact that he waited to free agency when he had no opportunity to make money means he was gong to leave.
13 Jun 11
Originally posted by quackquackNo title for LeBron this year; Mavs win 105-95 to take the series in 6.
I did not say the doctor was a scum bag. I merely said the doctor has an incentive to send Bosh back before he is ready because Bosh had a month left in the uniform.
Bosh was clearly going to get very close if not a max deal in his next deal. Any competent organization would have discussed parameters during his last season in Toronto.. If Bosh was ...[text shortened]... at he waited to free agency when he had no opportunity to make money means he was gong to leave.