02 Mar 09
Originally posted by Tirau DanWell said
Savouring era match ups is something real boxing fans treasure and have made a hobby of for several generations. It's mostly a male thing and most enjoyed by guys who grew up reading comics and boys own annuals which inspired imagination in later life.
One has to disregard the late career fights of the greats. Those matches were pocket money for the pro ...[text shortened]... he wasn't right. Cuba as a nation loves boxing; they hated the pro scene's cheats.
02 Mar 09
Originally posted by Tirau DanI know i have gone of "thread "here ,but did any body watch Sugar Ray Leonard,s come back fight after a detatched retina against Marvin Haggler ,now that was some fight !!! Getting back to the heavy weights , the 70,s fight scene was top bill in my eyes ...
Savouring era match ups is something real boxing fans treasure and have made a hobby of for several generations. It's mostly a male thing and most enjoyed by guys who grew up reading comics and boys own annuals which inspired imagination in later life.
One has to disregard the late career fights of the greats. Those matches were pocket money for the pro ...[text shortened]... he wasn't right. Cuba as a nation loves boxing; they hated the pro scene's cheats.
02 Mar 09
Originally posted by phil3000Ali,Foreman,Norton,Fraiser,Young,Ellis,Shavers,even Quarry ! If he was'nt in that group he probally could have been a champ. My hat is off to Leonard for the Hagler fight as well as for what he did to Hearns and Duran.this thread is morphing I know but this always happens with boxing talk.lol. Speaking of Hagler and Hearns ,was their fight one of the best 3 rounds in boxing history or what?!
I know i have gone of "thread "here ,but did any body watch Sugar Ray Leonard,s come back fight after a detatched retina against Marvin Haggler ,now that was some fight !!! Getting back to the heavy weights , the 70,s fight scene was top bill in my eyes ...
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonI got myself into a fair bit of trouble avoiding work to watch some of the duran leonard and hagler hearns fights but back when ali was fighting everyone stopped and everyone watched. Ali stopped the traffic of whole cities all over the world that was unique. I can't think of any sport that stopped factories and traffic the way he did. (and it didn't matter who he was fighting.)
Ali,Foreman,Norton,Fraiser,Young,Ellis,Shavers,even Quarry ! If he was'nt in that group he probally could have been a champ. My hat is off to Leonard for the Hagler fight as well as for what he did to Hearns and Duran.this thread is morphing I know but this always happens with boxing talk.lol. Speaking of Hagler and Hearns ,was their fight one of the best 3 rounds in boxing history or what?!
Even the famous Mexico v England world cup semi with Bobby Charlton scoring only really stopped the traffic in Mexico City.
I still remember the boss telling one of my mates to go and get some cold beer from the pub half hour before the Ali Foreman fight... man it was so exciting and our workshop with twenty odd staff all yelled at Ali to fight back and cheered when he did ... awesome sporting occasion amongst the best I've seen in my life at that moment He was "The Greatest".
03 Mar 09
Depends on whether we define the "Greatest" as "who would most likely emerge victorious from a round robin match up?" or "who stood out/shone amongst all others in their era to the greatest degree?"
Tyson and Lewis, for my money, do not belong in this discussion. They suffered losses to boxers with ability below the standard "excellent" whilst in their prime...Lewis to Rahman, Tyson to Buster Douglas.
I've been told by many people beyond my years (chatting in the pubs) that Foreman>>>Tyson, for the fear factor. It's ludicrous how his persona changed from one mean SOB to "Uncle George" promoting health grills.
Had Foreman had the wherewithall to notice and attempt to counter Ali's tactics in the Rumble In the Jungle (and I am relying on pubtalk/conjecture again, but Ali's victory was a massive upset too) I am of the belief that there would have been absolutely no-one else for a long time capable of both physically withstanding/beating him, and overcoming the overwelming mental hurdle of trying. Ali's legacy would be somewhat lessened! Foreman won that fight, people would be talking about the dominance of Foreman now the way people speak of Lance Armstrong, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps etc...
Marciano, he didn't fight many "bigger guys" Lewis/Foreman would destroy him on size/power alone, I think. Wish I could have watched him though, he looks like an absolutely relentless wrecking ball.
Ali tops it.
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by Tirau DanThe Melbourne Cup horse race stops the nation on the first Tuesday in November here in Australia.
I got myself into a fair bit of trouble avoiding work to watch some of the duran leonard and hagler hearns fights but back when ali was fighting everyone stopped and everyone watched. Ali stopped the traffic of whole cities all over the world that was unique. I can't think of any sport that stopped factories and traffic the way he did. (and it didn't matte ...[text shortened]... orting occasion amongst the best I've seen in my life at that moment He was "The Greatest".
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by boarmanlol same here in rural Waikato... we love our horses bringing home aussie cash and silver... heehee.
The Melbourne Cup horse race stops the nation on the first Tuesday in November here in Australia.
Mind you it's our local race day next week and this town will all be there (in the beer tent).
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by Bobson 94You must mean Joe Louis. Joe Louis would have smashed Foreman etc on power. The guy also had skill and instinct. Lennox Lewis wouldn't have stood past round 3 with any of them.
Depends on whether we define the "Greatest" as "who would most likely emerge victorious from a round robin match up?" or "who stood out/shone amongst all others in their era to the greatest degree?"
Tyson and Lewis, for my money, do not belong in this discussion. They suffered losses to boxers with ability below the standard "excellent" whilst in their ...[text shortened]... though, he looks like an absolutely relentless wrecking ball.
Ali tops it.
Plenty of archival footage of the greats. The first thing you notice in fights of 40s-60s is that the fighters were there to fight. Yes lots of fixes but not the farcical charades of today
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by Bobson 94yes. i am saying who would win in a fight. all in their primes. Idont think anyone of them would tare through the lot of them undefeated,but i think joe louis would be very hard to stop.even marciano for that matter. a great fight would be marciano vs fraiser! cuz smokin joe was a throw back himself.watch the fights from the 20's-50's and you will see how though those men were,in all weight classes.a knock down was nothing to them.I believe firpo was floored 7 times by dempsey before sending sending jack through the ropes into the press row! You dont see heart like that in the fighters today
Depends on whether we define the "Greatest" as "who would most likely emerge victorious from a round robin match up?" or "who stood out/shone amongst all others in their era to the greatest degree?"
Tyson and Lewis, for my money, do not belong in this discussion. They suffered losses to boxers with ability below the standard "excellent" whilst in their ...[text shortened]... though, he looks like an absolutely relentless wrecking ball.
Ali tops it.
03 Mar 09
3 edits
Originally posted by Tirau DanI typed it correctly, but I was wrong on that one.
You must mean Joe Louis. Joe Louis would have smashed Foreman etc on power. The guy also had skill and instinct. Lennox Lewis wouldn't have stood past round 3 with any of them.
Plenty of archival footage of the greats. The first thing you notice in fights of 40s-60s is that the fighters were there to fight. Yes lots of fixes but not the farcical charades of today
Hmmm...threw Lennox Lewis into the hat on account of his larger size. I had a misconception that Joe Louis was somehow physically weaker than the likes of Foreman, Ali, Lewis (based on his being shorter in size, lighter in weight). (Also, Louis didn't REALLY beat Jersey Joe in their first fight...)
I'm not convinced Louis would have taken Foreman or Ali on power though, it's a shame it is impossible to know.
Taking:
Jack Johnson
Walcott
Marciano
Louis
Ali
Foreman
Frasier
Holmes (hell yes!)
Tyson
Lewis
...
put them in a neutral venue,
and wham!
Foreman gets the most wins for me, don't think anyone else will agree with that though. Maybe it's impossible for one to take on and win all 9 others due to the "matchups" thing. e.g. Foreman - Frasier 1 is nothing short of terrifying, every time I watch it. Frasier - Marciano...Frasier - Tyson??
Frasier is my favourite fighter from that crowd though. Crapped on from a high height by Ali (scurrilous allegations wise), tough as old boots in the ring. He's how I'd like to be were I a boxer. Take the knocks, keep on coming regardless of what the hell is going on. To death, if necessary. (!Too deep!)
Looking at the list, it's been a while since the HW division had a genuine class top heavyweight to match those guys. I really quite like David Haye's style (akin to Henry Armstrong, taking on all comers), but he will never ever enter this kind of debate. Not even a "best of 21st century" debate.
*EDIT* Neutral venue...looking at the match, the crowd also had a influence of the mindset of the fighters in Rumble of the Jungle.
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by Bobson 94as far as joe louis being physically weaker....he was 6'2" 200 lbs. out of 69 fights he had 55 ko's as a professional.remember ,he held the title for nearly 12 years. Timing and technique creates punching power. knock out power. not muscles,size or strength. If that were the case power lifters or WWF wrestlers would dominate boxing.they call it the "sweet science" for a reason
I typed it correctly, but I was wrong on that one.
Hmmm...threw Lennox Lewis into the hat on account of his larger size. I had a misconception that Joe Louis was somehow physically weaker than the likes of Foreman, Ali, Lewis (based on his being shorter in size, lighter in weight). (Also, Louis didn't REALLY beat Jersey Joe in their first fight... ...[text shortened]... crowd also had a influence of the mindset of the fighters in Rumble of the Jungle.
03 Mar 09
Originally posted by Bobson 94The Rumble in The Jungle was was staged to favour Ali as it was a Muslim country. The whole country got behind Ali who was treated as the fists of God.. that paid a huge fear factor against Foreman.
I typed it correctly, but I was wrong on that one.
Hmmm...threw Lennox Lewis into the hat on account of his larger size. I had a misconception that Joe Louis was somehow physically weaker than the likes of Foreman, Ali, Lewis (based on his being shorter in size, lighter in weight). (Also, Louis didn't REALLY beat Jersey Joe in their first fight... ...[text shortened]... crowd also had a influence of the mindset of the fighters in Rumble of the Jungle.
Two fights that would settle most boxing aficionados would be
Marciano v Louis with the winner to face Ali.
I think Marciano would grind down Louis but Ali would out point Marciano over 15.
The other angle is the weight with lots of us dreaming of a bout between Sugar Ray Robinson and Ali both at equal weight. Most would agree that it would be by far the best bout possible.