Originally posted by darvlayThe ESPN article was interesting but the issue they asked players was
Espn has an article today on best pitcher v. Best hitter.
11 out of 11 mlb players polled said Pujols os the best hitter. 7 of the 11 said Halladay is the best pitcher. I wonder how many votes Santana got?
was who would they like to see pitch (not who had the best career).
Anyone care to revisit the argument on who is the better pitcher, who will have the better career, who is more dominant, who is more durable, etc. etc.
The answer always comes back: Roy.
Quackquack, no1 et al. - How many wins do you think Halladay has a shot at this year? I think he has a legit shot to win 25. I'd put the over/under at 22. How many do you think Santana gets this year?
Originally posted by darvlayI'd also put the over/under at about 22, because he's playing for the best team in the NL.
Anyone care to revisit the argument on who is the better pitcher, who will have the better career, who is more dominant, who is more durable, etc. etc.
The answer always comes back: Roy.
Quackquack, no1 et al. - How many wins do you think Halladay has a shot at this year? I think he has a legit shot to win 25. I'd put the over/under at 22. How many do you think Santana gets this year?
He's not going to stay this hot for the whole season; but he'll win some games where he doesn't pitch great also because the Phillies are a good hitting team.
As for Santana, with the Mets' offensive problems and his durability issues, I'd say his upside is maybe 17 or 18.
Originally posted by sh76Maybe the better question is many how games will he lose?
He's not going to stay this hot for the whole season; but he'll win some games where he doesn't pitch great also because the Phillies are a good hitting team.
I'd put the over/under on that at 4.
Halladay playing for a great team in a weak division. Scary, scary thought.
Also, I think Roy goes over 10 CGs this season. Charlie Manuel had Halladay hitting in the the 8th yesterday with a runner on only up 2-0. Clearly, to the Manager, a 9th inning Halladay is a better option than any pitcher in the bullpen including the (interim) closer! Smart guy....
You put me in a crazy situation defending Halladay but when you say crazy things I have no choice. I hate the Mets and like Halladay and the Phillies. As a said before I think Halladay is a great pitcher and the favorite to win the Cy Young award. Unless he gets hurt of course he will lose more than four games this year.
Furthermore Halladay just isn't Santana. Whose since 2002 when he first had more than five decisions has eras of 2.99, 3.07, 2.62, 2.87, 2.77, 3.33, 2.53, 3.13 and 3.00 with 2 CYs -- that makes him more consistent and better in his best year than Halladay. Again Santana's worst ERA ever was 3.33. Holiday had a 4.20 ERA and 3.71 ERA and has one Cy. This should be enough to show you Santana has had a better career.
For all of you who talk about Holliday like he throws 4000 innings per year he led the League in inning pitched three times Santana led twice. Santana led the AL in WHIP 4 consecutive years (three under one) pitching 228, 231.2 and 233.3 innings those years. Holliday once leg the league once in WHIP. Again, simply as of today Santana has had a better career. Complete games are nice being on a team that has a closer is better.
Originally posted by quackquackBlah blah blah.
You put me in a crazy situation defending Halladay but when you say crazy things I have no choice. I hate the Mets and like Halladay and the Phillies. As a said before I think Halladay is a great pitcher and the favorite to win the Cy Young award. Unless he gets hurt of course he will lose more than four games this year.
Furthermore Halladay just ...[text shortened]... as had a better career. Complete games are nice being on a team that has a closer is better.
I'm talking about the future now, Quack. We discussed the past at length already in this thread.
Give me predictions for both Halladay and Santana this year and, if you like, extrapolate a few years down the road and tell me if you still think Santana gets the nod over Halladay...
Originally posted by darvlayI agree Halladay is better now but Santana will have the better career. The Phillies have much better hitting and play in a much better hitting park and that will effect win totals and ERA.
Blah blah blah.
I'm talking about the future now, Quack. We discussed the past at length already in this thread.
Give me predictions for both Halladay and Santana this year and, if you like, extrapolate a few years down the road and tell me if you still think Santana gets the nod over Halladay...
I'd rather have my ace go eight innings and hand it to a closer (Santana) then have to have my closer get complete games becuase their relief pitcher stinks even more than the Mets (Halladay).
Originally posted by quackquackLOL! One second you run off a bunch of stats and claim that this PROVES Santana has had a better career, now you say stats for the Phillies are skewed. You can't have it both ways, Quack. With the Phillies in their "hitters park", how impressive then is Halladay's sub-one ERA?
I agree Halladay is better now but Santana will have the better career. The Phillies have much better hitting and play in a much better hitting park and that will effect win totals and ERA.
I'd rather have my ace go eight innings and hand it to a closer (Santana) then have to have my closer get complete games becuase their relief pitcher stinks even more than the Mets (Halladay).
Would you assert that if K-Rod was the Phillies closer, Halladay wouldn't have been out there in the 9th last night? If so, I beg to disagree. I get the feeling you have not watched Mr. Halladay pitch many games and have not witnessed how he simply gets better as the game goes on. That wouldn't be any fault of yours as I know the Blue jays aren't exactly prime time television in the states. I'm willing to bet you'll be changing your tune by the end of this year... unless you truly are as stubborn as you appear here.
Originally posted by darvlayI am a Yankee fan so I have seen Halladay pitch more than I'd care to see. He's certainly great but I am not going to lie and say has the best career of any activie player. Even though Halladay is better than Santana now, Santana has had a better career. Lincecum, who has thrown two full years and won two CYs both years and is 3-0 with a .90 ERA this year could easily be better the Halladay again and probably is better now.
LOL! One second you run off a bunch of stats and claim that this PROVES Santana has had a better career, now you say stats for the Phillies are skewed. You can't have it both ways, Quack. With the Phillies in their "hitters park", how impressive then is Halladay's sub-one ERA?
Would you assert that if K-Rod was the Phillies closer, Halladay wouldn't ...[text shortened]... r tune by the end of this year... unless you truly are as stubborn as you appear here.
Halladay has been great in his FOUR starts, but you asked for FUTURE predictions so here's my prediction: your delusional if you think he's going to be this good all season (even if it would help my fantasy team). Furthermore, we disagree about the significance of complete games because if K-Rod was on the Phillies, I am pretty confident Halladay would watch him pitch the 9th.