Which QB should start for the 49ers?

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
I'm scared! I am agreeing with you on almost every post lately. It is a slippery slope Harbaugh has embarked upon and in the end karma may be hell. Smith is not all that great, but neither is Kaepernick. Subpar QB's in NFL abound. Smith is not one of them. Romo is, Jason Campbell is, and even the alleged future greats like Newton other than last night h ...[text shortened]... baugh character. NO loyalty to Stanford and now none to his players, the winning ones no less!

First of all, Harbaugh owes Stanford nothing. He took them farther than they have been
in a good long while, he was a great mentor for Andrew Luck, and he wanted to try
his hand in the NFL for a pretty damn good organization.

Pete Carrol dumped USC and took the job in Seattle (of course he probably knew of
upcoming sanctions).

Alex Smith is a decent QB, not great. He doesn't have a particularly good vertical game
and he doesn't scramble particularly well. That being said, he has been a serviceable
QB for SF and they have won with him. Please recall, they pitched Peyton manning to
come play for SF, but Manning was wooed by Elway. That should have said they
didn't feel Smith was the long term solution. They drafted Kaepernick which
surprised many since Smith was signed to a long term deal. That puzzled me why
they locked him up, but they did.

Now, Kaepernick is certainly inexperienced, but he is more mobile, those better
deep balls, and is energetic where Smith seems to be asleep at the wheel. I think
Smith's relative success is more a product of the system than his talent. I am not
really sure how attractive he would be to other NFL teams if he was available either.

Can SF win with him? sure. Can they win with Kaepernick? Sure.

Flip a coin because one of them will be gone next year I believe....and I think it will
be Smith.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Subpar to poor? When? He had one bad game against the Giants; they'll do that to a QB when they are on. His numbers weren't great against the Jets, but his team won 34-0. His stats were nothing special against the Vikes and Seahawks, but I wouldn't describe them as "subpar".

If you have a dominant defense and a great running game, what ! That's ridiculous.

EDIT: Granted, Kaepernick played very well against the Bears.

Vikings, Giants, Jets, Seahawks, ALL subpar (well, Giants horrible).

You seem to set the bar pretty low with just protecting the ball and making a few plays. You can draft countless quarterbacks to throw nothing but safe passes and curl up in a ball everytime you get pressure. I don't see leaning on the defense and Frank Gore as a good thing. There's no good reason NOT to want a play maker.

The Saints defense has been steadily improving. In the three games prior they allowed 13 points, 27 points (against the Falcons), and 17 points. More important, stop looking at season averages and actually watch plays. The offensive line was doing a very poor job protecting the quarterback, and Kaepernick evaded the sacks extremely well. They were stuffing the run for most of the game. Coverage by the receivers was also pretty good. Also, the 49ers got hit hard by penalties. I could go on, but literally every sports commentator (former players & coaches) said Kaepernick played a great game against the Saints.

That's good that Smith played a couple great games (4 that were good to great). It's his other games that bother me. The 49ers have a dominant Defense and running game, yet last year Akers broke the record for field goals, and much of the time those resulted from the Defense giving us turnovers and great field position.

Smith is dead last in the league for pass attempts over 15 yards. He's 29th in the league for pass attempts over 10 yards. Throwing nothing but high percentage passes, and taking the sack instead of throwing the ball away or attempting to make a play certainly helps your statistics.

Last, did you REALLY just try to hang the Rams tie around Kaepernick's neck for why SMITH should start? Really? "Kaepernick replaced Smith in a Rams game we were losing and only managed to tie it up" Ergo, Smith is better.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
I'm scared! I am agreeing with you on almost every post lately. It is a slippery slope Harbaugh has embarked upon and in the end karma may be hell. Smith is not all that great, but neither is Kaepernick. Subpar QB's in NFL abound. Smith is not one of them. Romo is, Jason Campbell is, and even the alleged future greats like Newton other than last night h ...[text shortened]... baugh character. NO loyalty to Stanford and now none to his players, the winning ones no less!

I totally agree with you that you don't lose your starting position to injury. You lose your starting position because the coach feels someone else on the roster is better.

You could argue Kaepernick is unproven since he only has two starts, but to argue he hasn't played very well is laughable.

In college the first in history to throw for 10,000 yards and run for 4000.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
I totally agree with you that you don't lose your starting position to injury. You lose your starting position because the coach feels someone else on the roster is better.

You could argue Kaepernick is unproven since he only has two starts, but to argue he hasn't played very well is laughable.

In college the first in history to throw for 10,000 yards and run for 4000.

This isn't college so all those numbers go out the window. Moreover, I never said he's not playing well, simply that his first insertion after the Smith concussion certainly did not give all that much hope. The Saints game Kaepernick benefited enormously from the two pick sixes. Without those it was looking dicey for 49'ers. K. has flair without doubt and Smith has big ifs no doubt. If Harbaugh felt so strongly then just bench Smith instead of taking advantage of injury.

Originally posted by shortcircuit
First of all, Harbaugh owes Stanford nothing. He took them farther than they have been
in a good long while, he was a great mentor for Andrew Luck, and he wanted to try
his hand in the NFL for a pretty damn good organization.

Pete Carrol dumped USC and took the job in Seattle (of course he probably knew of
upcoming sanctions).

Alex Smith is a ...[text shortened]... coin because one of them will be gone next year I believe....and I think it will
be Smith.

Harbaugh owes Stanford nothing? How about the notoriety of one of college football's preeminent jobs? Harbaugh was hired with hardly any experience of note to land such a plum job. How about all the kids who picked Stanford because of Harbaugh? I know many coaches do it including ND's Brian Kelly dumping Cincinnati unceremoniously. It does not make it right. Players could not do it. Coaches should be held to their contracts.

Smith is perhaps only middling, but he came out of training camp as the starter. Smith would have taken them to the SB were it not for the questionable fumble reversal on Giant's drive deep in their own territory. Smith is solid if not flamboyant and mobile the way Kaepernick is. Had there been no injury you think Harbaugh would have made the switch?

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
This isn't college so all those numbers go out the window. Moreover, I never said he's not playing well, simply that his first insertion after the Smith concussion certainly did not give all that much hope. The Saints game Kaepernick benefited enormously from the two pick sixes. Without those it was looking dicey for 49'ers. K. has flair without doubt a ...[text shortened]... bt. If Harbaugh felt so strongly then just bench Smith instead of taking advantage of injury.

Kaepernick benefited from 2 interceptions against the Saints.

Smith benefited from FIVE.

There is a strong likelihood Kaepernick would have scored at least one touchdown off the two picks if the defense didn't do it.

Also, when the game is closer it affects the play calling. Alex Smith had 42 pass attempts against the Saints. Kaepernick only got 25.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Harbaugh owes Stanford nothing? How about the notoriety of one of college football's preeminent jobs? Harbaugh was hired with hardly any experience of note to land such a plum job. How about all the kids who picked Stanford because of Harbaugh? I know many coaches do it including ND's Brian Kelly dumping Cincinnati unceremoniously. It does not make it r ...[text shortened]... he way Kaepernick is. Had there been no injury you think Harbaugh would have made the switch?

Do you live in a cloud? Coaches changing from college to the pros happens. Are you
saying no coach should ever leave their school of employment forever? There will
ALWAYS be kids who came there due to their recruitment.

Look at Urban Meyer. He packs it in at Florida for health and family reasons. He calls
it a career. Think any kids that he recruited were pissed when he did that? How do you
think they felt ONE YEAR later when he is taking the head coaching job at Ohio State?
Did his health miraculously improve and his family grow up in a year?

How about Nick Saban? He leaves LSU for a lucrative pro deal in Miami, he figures out
his schtick won't sell in the NFL, and he takes the job at Alabama. Think any kids at LSU
were pissed?

Steve Spurrier leaves Florida for the NFL, finds the same thing as Saban, then takes
the South Carolina job? Think any kids at Florida were pissed?

I already mentioned Pete Carrol who has bolted from colleges TWICE for the NFL.

These are all considered upgrades where they make a TON of money for the jump.
If You are offered a better paying job with better benefits, are you allowed to take
it? I mean, don't you have allegiance to your current employer?
Yeah, right!!!

As far as Harbaugh's "lack of experience", the guy was an NFL QB for many years,
the Stanford job was not a plum when he took it, Stanford rolled the dice, and I
think Harbaugh paid them back several fold by transforming that program. Andrew
Luck might have gone elsewhere had it not been for the chance of getting tutored
by a former NFL QB. He was there for 4 years and put Palo Alto back on the map.

Regarding your statement that players can't do it....uh, what do you think free agency
was created for? Have you ever read a coaches contract? There are escape clauses
included in them all the time that allow them to leave for a more prominent job, or
a predetermined scope of jobs, or for a contract buyout. This is very common. Why
do you think they shouldn't exercise those abilities for their perceived enrichment?

As far as any player who leaves training camp as a starter, that does not mean they
will keep that job. There are always players ready to take the job of the guy who is
starting in front of them. This is not news. I imagine that Harbaugh saw enough from
Kaepernick , that in his mind, gave him an edge over Smith. Have you ever thought
this exercise may have been done to see if he could light a fire under Smith? That
remains to be seen, but the last I saw, NO ONE is OWED a damn thing in the game.
If Smith lost the job for ANY reason, he has two options. He can pot about it or he
can work his ass off to get his job back. Pretty nice to earn the money he is riding
the pine, don't you think??

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Vikings, Giants, Jets, Seahawks, ALL subpar (well, Giants horrible).

You seem to set the bar pretty low with just protecting the ball and making a few plays. You can draft countless quarterbacks to throw nothing but safe passes and curl up in a ball everytime you get pressure. I don't see leaning on the defense and Frank Gore as a good thing. T ...[text shortened]... mith in a Rams game we were losing and only managed to tie it up" Ergo, Smith is better.

There's no sense discussing it with you; you cherry pick whatever stats favor CK and throw out all the ones that favor Smith. It's pointless to talk to someone so obviously biased.

5th in the league in QB rating. 13 TDs. 5 INTs. 70% completions. Took his team to the NFC Championship Game last year. But now he's garbage. OK.

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Do you live in a cloud? Coaches changing from college to the pros happens. Are you
saying no coach should ever leave their school of employment forever? There will
ALWAYS be kids who came there due to their recruitment.

Look at Urban Meyer. He packs it in at Florida for health and family reasons. He calls
it a career. Think any kids that he recrui ...[text shortened]... t his job back. Pretty nice to earn the money he is riding
the pine, don't you think??

I repeat: in Smith's last two games he was 25 for 27 for 304 yards with 4 TDs and 0 INTs. And he lost his job?

Originally posted by no1marauder
There's no sense discussing it with you; you cherry pick whatever stats favor CK and throw out all the ones that favor Smith. It's pointless to talk to someone so obviously biased.

5th in the league in QB rating. 13 TDs. 5 INTs. 70% completions. Took his team to the NFC Championship Game last year. But now he's garbage. OK.

What?? Saying Smith played 4 good games and 4 bad (he played 8 full games) is the opposite of cherry picking.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I repeat: in Smith's last two games he was 25 for 27 for 304 yards with 4 TDs and 0 INTs. And he lost his job?

THAT is cherry picking.

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
THAT is cherry picking.

I will preface this by saying I am not an Alex Smith fan, but there are several QB's
worse than him out there.

In No1's defense, I don't think he is cherry picking, I think he is trying to make the point
that the last two games he played were outstanding, and he is questioning the timing
of the replacement.
I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I am assuming he thinks Smith is doing a good job.
I thought he was doing a decent job, but the system makes him look better than he is.
For that reason, I don't have a problem with the change, but, in fairness, the timing
was curious. Why not replace him after his bad run?

Harbaugh is a big boy and knows more than we do, I am sure.
As I speculated, he may have been trying to light a fire under Smith's butt.
He may be making a statement that nobody's job is safe if they don't execute.
Hell, Smith may have questioned Harbaugh's manhood at practice, I don't know.

I personally feel Kaepernick will be a better QB for them in the long run.
Time will tell.

Originally posted by shortcircuit
I will preface this by saying I am not an Alex Smith fan, but there are several QB's
worse than him out there.

In No1's defense, I don't think he is cherry picking, I think he is trying to make the point
that the last two games he played were outstanding, and he is questioning the timing
of the replacement.
I don't want to put words into his mo ...[text shortened]... sonally feel Kaepernick will be a better QB for them in the long run.
Time will tell.

And the two games before that (which BTW, were actually two FULL games) he was 33 of 53 for 340 yards (combined) with 1 touchdown and 4 interceptions. See how that works?

Again, he's inconsistent.

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Do you live in a cloud? Coaches changing from college to the pros happens. Are you
saying no coach should ever leave their school of employment forever? There will
ALWAYS be kids who came there due to their recruitment.

Look at Urban Meyer. He packs it in at Florida for health and family reasons. He calls
it a career. Think any kids that he recrui ...[text shortened]... t his job back. Pretty nice to earn the money he is riding
the pine, don't you think??

You just validated every one of my points! I dislike every last one of them who unceremoniously leaves his kids in the lurch and leaves for more money given that college players cannot leave unless they lose a year. I dislike Urban Meyer intensely for bald face lying about his reasons to leave the Gators. I am not saying they should never leave, but it is rather dishonorable to leave before the end of a contract, especially for self aggrandizement and padding a pocket book. Never forget I am a capitalist at heart and begrudge no one their money. It is quite unsurprising Harbaugh would go about the QB change in a backstabbing kind of way for without Smith Harbaugh would have bombed as a coach. And don't tell me what a great coach he is for he was spanked in last years conference championship by a real great. He owes Smith an apology after getting to where Harbaugh is with the QB's help then turning around and kicking him in the nuts while down. Lastly, just because Saban and others move at will does not make it right. Every time Saban loses I grin broadly, altough admittedly I don't feels as strongly about some of the other coaches including Brian Kelly.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
You just validated every one of my points! I dislike every last one of them who unceremoniously leaves his kids in the lurch and leaves for more money given that college players cannot leave unless they lose a year. I dislike Urban Meyer intensely for bald face lying about his reasons to leave the Gators. I am not saying they should never leave, but it ...[text shortened]... h admittedly I don't feels as strongly about some of the other coaches including Brian Kelly.

Why do you feel they should be held to a different set of rules in their employment than
you do in yours? Are you saying they aren't entitled to take a higher paying job if one
is offered? Are you saying if an opportunity to work closer to home so they can be
with their family more, that they shouldn't be allowed to do so?

That is very unrealistic. This country is fundamentally set up that way.
The kids understand the business aspect. Several of them have aspirations to take it to
the next level, so they have to get used to it.