11 year Old Hero. Or Psycho ?

Originally posted by normbenign
Trespass is a criminal offense.

Not in the UK except under special circumstances.

If a home has locked doors, and windows, it is presumed that anyone defeating those measures is trespassing.
No, defeating those measures is a difference offence - breaking and entering. Trespass is merely going onto or into someones property. (There are other forms of tresspass defined in the wikipedia page I referenced earlier).

A lot has to do with the exact circumstances.
So not the act of trespass itself.

If I wake at 3am to the sound of a crowbar prying open my locked door, the offender has already rejected my denial of him entering, and declared criminal intent. If he entered knowing the home is occupied, I would presume his intentions to be to harm anyone inside. In American law, this is known as the "Castle Doctrine", as a man's home is his castle.
But in the UK, they have real castles and no such doctrine.

I would have no reason not to shoot this intruder, and would not owe him further warnings.
In the UK, you would most likely not have a gun, and if you did shoot the intruder, you could be tried for murder.

Many people post signs to the effect that "burglars will be shot, and survivors prosecuted". Other means of warning off intruders are signs warning of vicious dogs. I am aware that some jurisdictions have passed laws forbidding dogs, or active alarm systems such as booby traps. I find these wrongheaded, and basically protective of the criminal element.
Certainly if you kept lions in your yard to fend off burglars they could sue you.

I find your "ask them to leave" advise particularly foolish in any non urban environment, where police response by be a long time coming. For example, in northern Michigan between the Mac bridge and Escanaba is a stretch of road with a few small towns and almost no police, especially at night. A 911 call there might take an hour or much longer for a response. There are, in fact, many times and places where people must face emergencies on their own, even in urban areas.
My advice was based on someone simply trespassing in your house or on your land. If you have good reason to believe you are being threatened, then you may use self defence. I disagree however with shooting them in the back as they run away.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
It isn't even an offence!

It's covered under tort law, which makes it a civil offence.
It's not criminal.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

There is no crime of breaking and entering in the UK.

How hard is that for you to grasp?

It's a crime in the USA NOT the UK.

We have a crime of Burglary which is where you trespass on someone's property/in their home
with the intent to steal/damage their stuff or them... Without such intent there is no crime.

And it doesn't matter how much you huff and puff and throw childish insults it will still be the case
that trespass is a civil offence and not a criminal one and that there is no breaking and entering crime
on the UK statute.

Originally posted by googlefudge
There is no crime of breaking and entering in the UK.

How hard is that for you to grasp?

It's a crime in the USA [b]NOT the UK.

We have a crime of Burglary which is where you trespass on someone's property/in their home
with the intent to steal/damage their stuff or them... Without such intent there is no crime.

And it doe ...[text shortened]... nce and not a criminal one and that there is no breaking and entering crime
on the UK statute.[/b]

For the sake of clarity, do you favor a person having a right to enter your home uninvited?

The nuances of local ordinances detracts from the basic concepts. Laws vary from one place to another, but generally entering another's home uninvited, and especially if accompanied by defeating locks is criminal.

Originally posted by normbenign
For the sake of clarity, do you favor a person having a right to enter your home uninvited?

The nuances of local ordinances detracts from the basic concepts. Laws vary from one place to another, but generally entering another's home uninvited, and especially if accompanied by defeating locks is criminal.

For the sake of clarity about what? The conversation I was having was about the legality in the
UK of particular actions.
Which means the legality in this country of those actions is the only thing of relevance.

And people do not "have a right to enter my home uninvited" it's just not a crime to non-forcefully
enter my home IF you have no intention to damage or steal my property or harm any person on
the premises and IF you are not armed in any way shape or form AND if you immediately and peacefully
leave if anyone tells you to GTFO of my house and/or garden....

The frequency of occurrence of such circumstances where the owner of the property would want to press
charges is in practice so low as to be a non-existent problem.

It's not a law we need, as pretty much anything you would be worried about is covered under other laws.

Originally posted by googlefudge
It's covered under tort law, which makes it a civil offence.
It's not criminal.

I know.
I was referencing the spelling!! 😀

Originally posted by googlefudge
There is no crime of breaking and entering in the UK.

I learnt something new.
Squatters always used to be careful that they entered the premises without breaking
locks so I assumed that was because of "breaking and entering" laws but as you say
we do not have those. I guess they would be charged with Criminal Damage.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Not in the UK except under special circumstances.

[b]If a home has locked doors, and windows, it is presumed that anyone defeating those measures is trespassing.
No, defeating those measures is a difference offence - breaking and entering. Trespass is merely going onto or into someones property. (There are other forms of tresspass defined in the w ...[text shortened]... en you may use self defence. I disagree however with shooting them in the back as they run away.[/b]

I disagree however with shooting them in the back as they run away.

I don't know of anywhere where you can shoot a fleeing felon, and claim self defense. Even if you were injured in the original attack, if it has been broken off, self defense is no longer needed.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I learnt something new.
Squatters always used to be careful that they entered the premises without breaking
locks so I assumed that was because of "breaking and entering" laws but as you say
we do not have those. I guess they would be charged with Criminal Damage.

Squatters are hardly legal experts. Simply pushing a door open that's ajar satisfies the requirement for breaking and entering.

Originally posted by FishHead111
Squatters are hardly legal experts. Simply pushing a door open that's ajar satisfies the requirement for breaking and entering.

Quite obviously I am still talking about UK law and would seek out a squatter's legal
advice any day over yours.

Originally posted by FishHead111
Squatters are hardly legal experts. Simply pushing a door open that's ajar satisfies the requirement for breaking and entering.

Squatters often are legal experts which is why they often succeed in maintaining their squat.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Squatters often are legal experts which is why they often succeed in maintaining their squat.

Yeah squatters that are trying to take ownership by adverse possession do know the law pretty well I suppose, I was thinking of the homeless bums that do it for a place to flop for a short while.
Anyway I finally went to a UK law site and was flabbergasted to discover that in the UK there really isn't a break & entry law.
I stand corrected.

Originally posted by googlefudge
For the sake of clarity about what? The conversation I was having was about the legality in the
UK of particular actions.
Which means the legality in this country of those actions is the only thing of relevance.

And people do not "have a right to enter my home uninvited" it's just not a crime to non-forcefully
enter my home IF you have no intenti ...[text shortened]... t a law we need, as pretty much anything you would be worried about is covered under other laws.

OK, so now we have a clearer understanding of the difference between UK law and that of across the pond.

In principal we agree. Whether it is a crime or not, it is wrong at some level to enter the home of another, and more so if the intent to to damage or steal property.

In the US, entering a home without permission, would be a risky business. Visiting friends or relatives is generally not done as a surprise here.