Debates
06 Aug 05
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingStay and play, CLT. And don't worry about being offensive, not in the forums. But why should I answer your questions before you answer the one than I originally asked Little Bear?
Sorry Delmer, it was not intended to be ofensive. As far as your sayings did.
I leave until you decide if you are going to answer my questions or not.
'Till then, hervite y tomate el caldo.
Regards
-J
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by Delmer
Stay and play, CLT. And don't worry about being offensive, not in the forums. But why should I answer your questions before you answer the one than I originally asked Little Bear?
well, Delmer, if you want to "play" in a plan of peace, I'll retire my insults.
Your post:
"Without big men to criticize, little men would have no lives at all. BTW, wasn't Argentina a country that welcomed the Nazis and their gold as WWII was winding down?"
Clearly. you are attacking little bear calling him a "little man". IMHO the "little man" is you, cos you are attacking him.
I wonder why you ask about Nazis and Argentina. Suposedly you have wrote a book about the WWII. And suposedly you must know at least something about that dark era of argentine history.
Why do you must ask about it? You should be an autority in the matter, no? (sarcasm intended).
Your post seems to me, honestly. as a poor intent of harrashment to us argentines. Sorry if I have misunderstood you.
I really, in turn. don't saw any bad intention in the posts of the bear.
And, what is most important, this is a personal attck out of the blue. completely out of topic,
Regards
Julia
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by CrazyLilTinga pig !??
If you know a lot about argentine people, you must know what I mean with:
Sos un azno, un cerdo cagón que habla desde afuera. Poné las guindas en el fuego y contestá, huacho. Es fácil hablar boludeces cuando uno tiene la zapán yena, facho. Seguí esquivándole al bulto, malparido.
-J
Tales sensaciones...Usted no duraría de largo en los foros como americano.
😉
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingLittle Bear's Post:
well, Delmer, if you want to "play" in a plan of peace, I'll retire my insults.
Your post:
"Without big men to criticize, little men would have no lives at all. BTW, wasn't Argentina a country that welcomed the Nazis and their gold as WWII was winding down?"
Clearly. you are attacking little bear calling him a "little man". IMHO the ...[text shortened]... tant, this is a personal attck out of the blue. completely out of topic,
Regards
Julia
"Sometime ago I "google" for the first test of the evil invention.
I can't remember if it was at New Mexico, Arizona, or wherever...
I was really impressed. Baclly impressed.
After I read the reports on the "experiment" writen by the scientists,
I feel a profound vomit (I'm not intending to be offensive) revolving my stomach.
My "science gods" go down.
All of them clapping at chorus welcoming the born of a new weapon of mass destruction... = human life.
And all of them well payed by the US goverment, plenty of bucks and their somachs plenty of food.
What can I add?
Again: KILLERS."
I guess if Little Bear can call those scientists hired USA killers I can at least ask about that "dark era of Argentine history." Seems ironic to me that someone in a country that was welcoming Nazis at the time is criticizing the USA's attempt to end that war. Don't you find that ironic, Julia?
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by Delmer
Little Bear's Post:
"Sometime ago I "google" for the first test of the evil invention.
I can't remember if it was at New Mexico, Arizona, or wherever...
I was really impressed. Baclly impressed.
After I read the reports on the "experiment" writen by the scientists,
I feel a profound vomit (I'm not intending to be offensive) revolving my sto ...[text shortened]... the time is criticizing the USA's attempt to end that war. Don't you find that ironic, Julia?
So, I have to asume that you agree that we, young people, must charge with the sins of our fathers?
I'm 24 yo. I agree with lb.
We learn what we read in the books.
(In that sense, you are responsible cos you have writen one 🙂 ).
Have you read the biographies of Von Neuman and Norbert Wiener?
If so, have you noted a subtle difference?
Neumann, Oppenheimer, Bohr, et al were people hungry of power. They were very well disposed to sell his services for a buck, or a power position.
At least, that is what history tells us.
They knew that they were building the new technology for killing. And please don't tell me that they were so simplistic that they could have ignore it. (Wiener being an exception between others as I can remember, a real lovely human being)
How is it related to Argentina receiving nazis after the war?
Well, it's up to you.
You are relating the past of our country to us young people, and I feel ofended. BTW, there is a lot of legend in it. It's not patrioterism. Plz refer to the sources. (Spain, Italy, Japan, etc. have received a lot of nazis as well)
Oh well. It's almost time to bed here.
Again, as a latin I have "hot blood" so my over reaction, and I beg you pardon if I have said something insulting.
Anyway, I agree with the bear.
You should to make a great and well informed effort to convince me on the contrary.
That is what nice about the forums (the possibility of arguing I mean).
Have a nice night.
Julia
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingPeron.
So, I have to asume that you agree that we, young people, must charge with the sins of our fathers?
I'm 24 yo. I agree with lb.
We learn what we read in the books.
(In that sense, you are responsible cos you have writen one 🙂 ).
Have you read the biographies of Von Neuman and Norbert Wiener?
If so, have you noted a subtle difference?
Neumann, ...[text shortened]... hat nice about the forums (the possibility of arguing I mean).
Have a nice night.
Julia
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by CrazyLilTingI compliment you on your post, Julia, and encourage you to buy a subscription to Red Hot Pawn. You will make a fine addition to the site. I am not going to make an effort to convince you to believe other than what you already believe. But I do think it unreasonable to look back 60 years to a world still at war and judge the scientists who built the nuclear bombs as killers. By the time the bombs were dropped the war had probably already claimed from 100 to 200 million lives. The bombs probably claimed another 150,000 to 200,000 lives and the war ended. There are those who argue that the war would have ended anyway and the bombs should not have been dropped. But I remember the war ending and remember no one that I knew arguing that it should have been prolonged to avoid using a new weapon. No doubt Japan would have surrendered eventually but there were tens of thousands of Allied POWs being held in Japan and they probably would not have survived if Japan had been blockaded or invaded. What sense to force them to undergo one more day of torture than necessary? And certainly more than 150,000 to 200,000 Allied and Japanese lives would have been lost in an invasion. As far as I know, nuclear weapons have not been used since 1945. Perhaps I am wrong but I do not remember the "killer" scientists advocating the use of nuclear weapons after the war. In fact, I remember the opposite. Again, Julia, I compliment you on your post and hope that you become a Red Hot Pawn subscriber.
So, I have to asume that you agree that we, young people, must charge with the sins of our fathers?
I'm 24 yo. I agree with lb.
We learn what we read in the books.
(In that sense, you are responsible cos you have writen one 🙂 ).
Have you read the biographies of Von Neuman and Norbert Wiener?
If so, have you noted a subtle difference?
Neumann, ...[text shortened]... hat nice about the forums (the possibility of arguing I mean).
Have a nice night.
Julia
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672I guess it's totally a waste of my time to post facts in this forum as people simply ignore them and go back to the fairy tales they have always heard.
Here's another angle, Del, which is sure to draw no1's ire. I was listening to an interview on NPR of a guy who just wrote a book about the development of the atomic bomb and the days and weeks leading up to their deployment in Japan. The guy said that the casualty estimates leading for an invasion of mainland Japan were one million US soldiers and ...[text shortened]... had decided not to use it, and instead chose a protracted and enormously costly invasion plan?
10 Aug 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672Thanks, SQ. I think your ire drawing ability is probably the only reason Killer is still posting, though I notice a hint of resignation in his answer to you.
Here's another angle, Del, which is sure to draw no1's ire. I was listening to an interview on NPR of a guy who just wrote a book about the development of the atomic bomb and the days and weeks leading up to their deployment in Japan. The guy said that the casualty estimates leading for an invasion of mainland Japan were one million US soldiers and ...[text shortened]... had decided not to use it, and instead chose a protracted and enormously costly invasion plan?
10 Mar 07
Originally posted by no1marauderhttp://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/library/correspondence/truman-harry/corr_truman_1952-12-31.htm
... Truman stated publically and repeatedly that the use of the bomb was a "military necessity" and that it was used against a "military" target. The second is a blatant falsehood; ....
"I asked Sec. Stimson which cities in Japan were devoted exclusively to war production. He promptly named Hiroshima and Nagasaki. "
Harry S Truman
10 Mar 07
i think that if the Survey had bothered to consult no1marauder first, they could have just skipped the Survey.
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/bomb/large/documents/fulltext.php?fulltextid=31
"U.S. Strategic
Bombing Survey
THE EFFECTS OF THE ATOMIC BOMBINGS
OF
HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI
...
The Survey’s complement provided for 300 civilians, 350 officers, and 500 enlisted men. The military segment of the organization was drawn from the Army to the extent of 60 percent, and from the Navy to the extent of 40 percent. Both the Army and Navy gave the Survey all possible assistance in furnishing men, supplies, transport, and information. The Survey operated from headquarters in Tokyo early in September, 1945, with sub-headquarters in Nagoya, Osaka, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, and with mobile teams operating in other parts of Japan, the islands of the Pacific and the Asiatic mainland.
It was possible to reconstruct much of wartime Japanese military planning and execution engagement by engagement and campaign
by campaign, and to secure reasonably accurate statistics on Japan’s economy and war- production plant by plant, and industry by industry. In addition, studies were conducted on Japan’s overall strategic plans and the background of her entry into the war, the internal discussions and negotiations leading to her acceptance of unconditional surrender, the course of health and morale among the civilian population, the effectiveness of the Japanese civilian defense organization and the effects of the atomic bombs. Separate reports will be issued covering each phase of the study.
The Survey interrogated more than 700 Japanese military, government and industrial officials. It also recovered and translated many documents which have not only been useful to the Survey, but will also furnish data valuable for other studies. Arrangements are being made to turn over the Survey’s files to a permanent government agency where they will be available for further examination and distribution.
..."