17 Jul 20
@no1marauder saidMy brilliant reply to this was removed. Someone flagged it I guess because I used the word idiotic, though it was not directed at you. Either that, or criticism of BLM is now automatically racist wrongthink to be disallowed, and some mod agreed. That would be bad, don't you think?
And where are the proposals from the right wingers to reduce police killings and hold police accountable for unjustified ones? Joe certainly hasn't come up with any; his and the rest here's focus is solely on the dubious premise that if a black gets killed by a cop it's automatically national news while if a white does it automatically isn't. Absurd as that is it seems t ...[text shortened]... but spouting hatred of BLM and the "vocal black community" in order to appease their shrinking base.
Anyway, here's a link that addresses your question:
https://spectator.org/what-police-reforms-do-americans-actually-want-qualified-immunity-defund-aoc-pew-research/
17 Jul 20
@joe-shmo saidOK, so what?
""Moreover, many would argue that disproportionate poverty levels among black people render them more likely to encounter police officers in the first place—vastly unfair, but different from the problem being simply cops’ standing racist bias."
Even if we can't get inside the mind of every cop and determine how racist they are or aren't the fact that they concentrate their efforts on black, urban neighborhoods even for minor offenses is a outcome of systemic racism.
17 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saidI didn't see it, sorry.
My brilliant reply to this was removed. Someone flagged it I guess because I used the word idiotic, though it was not directed at you. Either that, or criticism of BLM is now automatically racist wrongthink to be disallowed, and some mod agreed. That would be bad, don't you think?
Anyway, here's a link that addresses your question:
https://spectator.org/what-police-reforms-do-americans-actually-want-qualified-immunity-defund-aoc-pew-research/
I'll look at your link later; I'm a working stiff.
17 Jul 20
@joe-shmo saidI don't have time to find links right now, but that still shows blacks having twice as much or more chances of being arrested for such offenses even though FBI studies have shown using and selling drugs is approximately equal among percentages of blacks and whites.
Drug Abuse Arrest in 2018[1]:
Total...................White.............Black
1,234,178 ........871,295.........333,113
Explain to me how 70% off all Drug Abuse arrests are of White ( including Hispanic ) yet they somehow completely "ignore it" in the white community?
[1]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43
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17 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidYeah, me too. Can't recall having written anything warranting removal but a lengthy post disappeared in an instant. Perhaps I was cranky, but I can't specifically recall. It would be nice if they gave you a chance to edit prior to just destroying a post.
I read it, I don't recall seeing anything that stuck out to me.
Hey, things happen. I had one of mine pulled recently, too
@joe-shmo saidInteresting how despite these arrest patterns, 2/3 of people who go to prison for drugs are black.
Drug Abuse Arrest in 2018[1]:
Total...................White.............Black
1,234,178 ........871,295.........333,113
Explain to me how 70% off all Drug Abuse arrests are of White ( including Hispanic ) yet they somehow completely "ignore it" in the white community?
[1]https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43
https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00.htm
Our research shows that blacks comprise 62.7 percent and whites 36.7 percent of all drug offenders admitted to state prison, even though federal surveys and other data detailed in this report show clearly that this racial disparity bears scant relation to racial differences in drug offending. There are, for example, five times more white drug users than black.
You want an explanation? Cops arrest white druggies, they get a slap on the wrist from the courts, and they go home. Blacks go to prison for decades instead.
18 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saidOK, cutting police budgets is still a minority position now. However, your piece doesn't cover much of what the public actually supports in the poll it cites:
My brilliant reply to this was removed. Someone flagged it I guess because I used the word idiotic, though it was not directed at you. Either that, or criticism of BLM is now automatically racist wrongthink to be disallowed, and some mod agreed. That would be bad, don't you think?
Anyway, here's a link that addresses your question:
https://spectator.org/what-police-reforms-do-americans-actually-want-qualified-immunity-defund-aoc-pew-research/
"Several other policing proposals draw broad support as well: 90% of the public favors a federal government database to track officers accused of misconduct. Three-quarters support giving civilian oversight boards the power to investigate and discipline officers accused of misconduct, and similar shares favor requiring officers to live in the places they police and outlawing police use of chokeholds or strangleholds."
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/07/09/majority-of-public-favors-giving-civilians-the-power-to-sue-police-officers-for-misconduct/
And:
"Public ratings of the police in three other areas – using the right amount of force for each situation, treating racial and ethnic groups equally and holding officers accountable when misconduct occurs – are considerably more negative, with more than six-in-ten Americans rating police performance in these domains as only fair or poor. "
There is widespread support for police reform.
18 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidWhich of these policies do you oppose:
The problem with making the police more responsible is going to be a daunting
task. There is little central control in each state, let alone, in the nation.
Not sure how they can approach the problem
1. Require officers to de-escalate situations, where possible, by communicating with subjects, maintaining distance, and otherwise eliminating the need to use force;
2. Ban choke and strangle holds;
3. Require officers to intervene and stop excessive force used by other officers and report these incidents immediately to a supervisor;
4. Ban officers from shooting at moving vehicles;
5. Develop a Force Continuum that limits the types of force and/or weapons that can be used to respond to specific types of resistance;
6. Require officers to exhaust all other reasonable means before resorting to deadly force;
7. Require officers to give a verbal warning, when possible, before shooting at a civilian;
8. Require officers to report each time they use force or threaten to use force against civilians.
http://useofforceproject.org/#project
A full report is here: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56996151cbced68b170389f4/t/57e1b5cc2994ca4ac1d97700/1474409936835/Police+Use+of+Force+Report.pdf
Its conclusion: "Finally, in 2016, we conducted an analysis of the 100 largest US cities found eight types of restrictions in police use of force policies that were associated with lower rates of killings by police. This is the largest study on this topic to date and its findings echo the findings from past research, supporting the efficacy of policies like banning shooting at people in vehicles, the requirement officers exhaust alternatives prior to using deadly force and the requirement that officers report whenever they point a firearm at people. Moreover, our research found that having more of these use of force restrictions in place was associated with significantly fewer police-involved killings compared to departments with fewer of these policies in place. In that study, we also found that police departments with more restrictive use of force policies have better outcomes in terms of officer safety and have no impact on crime rates. The research is clear: more restrictive use of force policies like the kind we are advocating for through the 8Can’tWait campaign can save lives right now."
I would add that required bodycam use and civilian review boards are other proposals that garner widespread public support.
That you and Joe can't come up with any ideas to reduce police killings and make them accountable when they unjustifiably use force doesn't mean others already haven't.
18 Jul 20
@AThousandYoung You want an explanation? Cops arrest white druggies, they get a slap on the wrist from the courts, and they go home. Blacks go to prison for decades instead.
Whoa. sure you want to stick with that?
All along, leftists attack the cops for underhandedness to blacks, now you say
the COURTS are the ones that are prejudice. Just wow.
@no1marauder saidMy God, you must think I am not against police brutality. I am very much against it.
Which of these policies do you oppose:
1. Require officers to de-escalate situations, where possible, by communicating with subjects, maintaining distance, and otherwise eliminating the need to use force;
2. Ban choke and strangle holds;
3. Require officers to intervene and stop excessive force used by other officers and report these incidents immediately to a s ...[text shortened]... ngs and make them accountable when they unjustifiably use force doesn't mean others already haven't.
All those ideas are fine, the problem is, the police in all communities do not
come under one jurisdiction. The federal DoJ cannot implement these new
policies that you propose.
I suppose that states CAN but then you have to depend on them doing it and
doing it completely and consistently. Hope I cleared that up.
18 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidNah the cops show prejudice by just killing blacks on the street
@AThousandYoung You want an explanation? Cops arrest white druggies, they get a slap on the wrist from the courts, and they go home. Blacks go to prison for decades instead.
Whoa. sure you want to stick with that?
All along, leftists attack the cops for underhandedness to blacks, now you say
the COURTS are the ones that are prejudice. Just wow.
18 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidSo do nothing then earl?
My God, you must think I am not against police brutality. I am very much against it.
All those ideas are fine, the problem is, the police in all communities do not
come under one jurisdiction. The federal DoJ cannot implement these new
policies that you propose.
I suppose that states CAN but then you have to depend on them doing it and
doing it completely and consistently. Hope I cleared that up.
There are untold numbers of State level initiatives concerning untold numbers of policy areas. If States don’t carry out the reforms its voters will know who to blame the next time traffic and commerce comes to a halt due to people demonstrating against police brutality / ineptitude.
18 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidI'm fine with these policy fights being resolved at the State and local levels primarily.
My God, you must think I am not against police brutality. I am very much against it.
All those ideas are fine, the problem is, the police in all communities do not
come under one jurisdiction. The federal DoJ cannot implement these new
policies that you propose.
I suppose that states CAN but then you have to depend on them doing it and
doing it completely and consistently. Hope I cleared that up.
18 Jul 20
@athousandyoung saidWell, the MSM certainly shows prejudice in only allowing it shown when an Afro
Nah the cops show prejudice by just killing blacks on the street
is killed in the streets by cops, but the prejudice is all on the MSM and BLM.
What is the TRUE picture? Are whites, too, killed in the streets? I think so.