Debates
05 Feb 09
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by no1marauderThe bill should not have been passed. Is that specific enough? Also, if you read my posts carefully, you will see that I never stated that health insurance was a basic need. I stated that if you believe it is a basic need, and the parents can't provide it, then the logical conclusion is that they either not have kids or give away the ones they have. I also never stated that only the wealthy should have kids. Hospitals will work out a payment plan even if you don't have insurance. So, if a tragedy should happen, or your kids are sick enough to need emergency care, you could get on a payment plan for it. Just like saving for college. If your child's care is important enough for a stranger to pay for it, surely you should be paying first.
The argument I am making is contained in the thread title. Please read it carefully.
I have never heard it seriously argued that working families should have to give up their children if they can't afford health insurance. I must admit to being stunned by such a concept. It is below heartless.
However, besides your appare ...[text shortened]... en in the first place?
Please SPECIFICALLY address the question just posed.
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by no1marauderPolitically popular is not a good way govern... the tax should be spread out among everyone.
Ya bitch if it's not paid for, ya bitch if it is paid for.
It's not an optimal way to raise revenue, but it's politically popular and they wanted to get this bill done quickly. Might as well get some cash out of smokers before they start gumming up the health care system.
06 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by dryhumpSo you don't believe in having a society where children's health is taken care of.
The bill should not have been passed. Is that specific enough? Also, if you read my posts carefully, you will see that I never stated that health insurance was a basic need. I stated that if you believe it is a basic need, and the parents can't provide it, then the logical conclusion is that they either not have kids or give away the ones they have. I als d's care is important enough for a stranger to pay for it, surely you should be paying first.
Thanks for your opinion. I'm very happy that the vast majority of people in the civilized world reject such a non-human concept.
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by no1marauderThis is the problem with all of you liberals. You don't want to have an honest debate. You want everyone to agree with you, and when they don't, you resort to name calling and questioning a person's character. I believe children's health should be taken care of, by the parents. I feel I have been very clear on this point.
So you don't believe in having a society where children's health is taken care of.
Thanks for your opinion. I'm very happy thast the vast majority of people in the civilized world reject such a non-human concept.
06 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by dryhumpYou stubbornly refuse to admit the reality that there are parents working who can't afford to. Your arrogance is topped only by your ignorance; hospitals or any health care providers have no obligation to arrange a "payment plan" and many won't. The natural consequence of your position is that millions of children will get inadequate or no health care. You don't seem to care about that result because you self-righteously want to blame the problems with the health care system on working families who have committed the terrible "crime" of bringing children into our society. I admit you do sicken me.
This is the problem with all of you liberals. You don't want to have an honest debate. You want everyone to agree with you, and when they don't, you resort to name calling and questioning a person's character. I believe children's health should be taken care of, by the parents. I feel I have been very clear on this point.
Our President put it best and this is what the American people voted for, not your "dog eat dog" view of the world:
This is not who we are. We are not a nation that leaves struggling families to fend for themselves. No child in America should be receiving her primary care in the emergency room in the middle of the night. No child should be falling behind at school because he can’t hear the teacher or see the blackboard. I refuse to accept that millions of our kids fail to reach their full potential because we fail to meet their basic needs. In a decent society, there are certain obligations that are not subject to tradeoffs or negotiation – health care for our children is one of those obligations.
06 Feb 09
I also feel it is important to say, that extraordinary circumstances sometimes call for outside help. This help used to be rendered by communities. I gaurantee that more good could be done through voluntary giving than the government could ever do through forced taxes. This just makes people feel that the government will make sure they do their part, so there's no need to worry about it. Sounds like apathy to me. What's a big problem in today's society?
06 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by dryhumpIdiots who think how they ran things in the 16th century was sooooooooooooooooo swell.
I also feel it is important to say, that extraordinary circumstances sometimes call for outside help. This help used to be rendered by communities. I gaurantee that more good could be done through voluntary giving than the government could ever do through forced taxes. This just makes people feel that the government will make sure they do their part, so t need to worry about it. Sounds like apathy to me. What's a big problem in today's society?
Your premise is, of course, ludicrously wrong. Voluntary giving is never sufficient nor is it an equitable solution to the problems of society.
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by no1marauderWho is we? I like the way the US does it. I don't like using polls to govern. Who cares if it is not popular... if it is right. Would you knowingly do something wrong just because all your friends told you to?
Well, you stated: Politically popular is not a good way govern
And insisted your way was the "correct way" to govern. So I presume that we need you as dictator since the way we do it now is sooooooooooooooooooo flawed.
06 Feb 09
Originally posted by no1marauderI never refused to admit that there were working parents who can't afford to pay for health insurance. You have refused to admit the reasonbility of my position, simply that parents who can't afford to take care of "basic needs" shouldn't have kids. If you are working and you don't have health insurance and can't afford it, don't choose to have kids. That is very simple. It is not my responsibility, or anyone else's for that matter, to provide for your children.
You stubbornly refuse to admit the reality that there are parents working who can't afford to. Your arrogance is topped only by your ignorance; hospitals or any health care providers have no obligation to arrange a "payment plan" and many won't. The natural consequence of your position is that millions of children will get inadequate or no health care. Y ...[text shortened]... to tradeoffs or negotiation – health care for our children is one of those obligations.
On what the american people voted for, I couldn't agree more. They voted for the candy man.
Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew
Cover it with choc'late and a miracle or two
The Candy Man, oh the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
Who can take a rainbow, wrap it in a sigh
Soak it in the sun and make a groovy lemon pie
The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
The Candy Man makes everything he bakes satisfying and delicious
Now you talk about your childhood wishes, you can even eat the dishes
Oh, who can take tomorrow, dip it in a dream
Separate the sorrow and collect up all the cream
The Candy Man, oh the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
The Candy Man makes everything he bakes satisfying and delicious
Talk about your childhood wishes, you can even eat the dishes
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Who can take tomorrow, dip it in a dream
Separate the sorrow and collect up all the cream
The Candy Man, the Candy Man can
The Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
Yes, the Candy Man can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good
a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man
Candy Man, a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man
Candy Man, a-Candy Man, a-Candy Man