17 Nov 10
Originally posted by KazetNagorraSo what? As I've pointed out to you many times, one size doesn't fit all. That one approach is best in one area doesn't mean its the best in ALL areas.
Actually such a voucher system combined with government-mandated curricula and standardized testing is exactly the same as a single-payer public education system.
17 Nov 10
Originally posted by no1marauderDiscipline should be the number one priority for every school. Students need to know there are basic rules and that they will be enforced. They need to know that they and their belongings will be safe, and that they will have the opportunity to learn in classrooms that don't resemble a zoo.
If you have a school where "discipline is the number one priority" you've already lost the game.
If there's no discipline, how can even the best teachers teach? How can even the most motivated students learn?
17 Nov 10
Originally posted by MelanerpesThat's the attitude of a prison guard not a teacher.
Discipline should be the number one priority for every school. Students need to know there are basic rules and that they will be enforced. They need to know that they and their belongings will be safe, and that they will have the opportunity to learn in classrooms that don't resemble a zoo.
If there's no discipline, how can even the best teachers teach? How can even the most motivated students learn?
18 Nov 10
Originally posted by MelanerpesA friend of mine runs the Free School in Albany, NY: "rules" is considered a bad word and "punishment" is unheard of. Still they've managed to function for over 40 years:
How many of these schools make discipline the number one priority? Or are these education systems infected with a culture where "rules" and "punishment" are considered to be dirty words?
For over thirty years in perhaps the most radical experiment in American education, this small inner-city alternative school has offered its students complete freedom over their learning. There are no mandatory classes, no grades, tests, or homework, and rules are generally avoided. As a last resort, rules are created democratically by students and teachers, often at the prompting of a student.
http://albanyfreeschool.com/testing/about+the+free+school
18 Nov 10
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderI'm not saying that discipline is the ONLY thing.
That's the attitude of a prison guard not a teacher.
a good example is my own experience with gym classes. When I was in junior high, the gym instructor was a high discipline kind of guy. (I think he used to be a drill sergeant). Everyone knew that they had better be in their gym uniform and be ready to seriously participate in the day's activities or else. And everyone was. So after the first week or so, he very rarely had to enforce the rules. And for the most part, everyone had an enjoyable time.
Then in high school, I got to experience gym classes where there was much less discipline. There were about eight or so total gym instructors and they were all almost equally lax. So you ended up with softball games where half your teammates were chatting in centerfield while the one person who really cared tried to play every position at once. You ended up with soccer games where half the people were just lying on the sideline getting a suntan. You ended up with basketball games where someone would keep hurling the ball across the court at a wall and if someone got in the way (such as myself one time) too bad.
Most of the time, these classes weren't fun. They were awful. Almost no one cared. At times, it got dangerous. It was a joke. I kept wishing that guy from junior high would drop by.
18 Nov 10
Originally posted by MelanerpesI object to your assertion that "discipline should be the #1 priority" at a school. Of course, some level of rules and their enforcement is necessary (even at the Free School) but I cannot agree that any good educator would acquiesce to such a statement. Learning is always the #1 priority at a school.
I'm not saying that discipline is the ONLY thing.
a good example is my own experience with gym classes. When I was in junior high, the gym instructor was a high discipline kind of guy. (I think he used to be a drill sergeant). Everyone knew that they had better be in their gym uniform and be ready to seriously participate in the day's activities or els ...[text shortened]... mes, it got dangerous. It was a joke. I kept wishing that guy from junior high would drop by.
In the present environment, there are many children at school who are forced to be there and are uninterested in the proceedings. In effect, we've made school a prison for them. So it's not surprising we need to resort to more and more coercive measures to keep the "inmates" in line. My suggestion was that by ending compulsory education laws we would sharply reduce the number of children in school who don't want to be there, are getting nothing out of it and disrupting the students (the vast majority) who do want to learn (which is a natural urge). This would be better IMO than relying on harsh discipline on children.
18 Nov 10
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderObviously, learning is the ultimate goal. I guess what I mean is that a discipline system is the first thing that needs to be in place.
I object to your assertion that "discipline should be the #1 priority" at a school. Of course, some level of rules and their enforcement is necessary (even at the Free School) but I cannot agree that any good educator would acquiesce to such a statement. Learning is always the #1 priority at a school.
In the present environment, there s a natural urge). This would be better IMO than relying on harsh discipline on children.
A discipline system in a school is like the foundation for a house. Obviously, the goal is to build a house. But the #1 priority has to be ensuring that you first have a solid foundation. Otherwise, even the best house won't stand.
Now we get back to the point I made earlier in the thread, regarding the "house" part of the education process. The biggest thing that makes someone a good teacher is their ability to make students want to learn. There are many ways of doing this. One of the big things I would change is the whole "teacher spoonfeeds knowledge to a classroom of passive students" model. I've always liked the Boy Scout merit badge approach. Give students a general list of requirements and the resources they need, and then let them do it by themselves - with the teacher being there to offer assistance whenever anyone seeks it. Instead of giving out grades, the teacher would either certify that the unit has been completed, or would point out areas where more work is needed.