Apple labor abuses

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
One third difference is already comparable, the Gini will make up a significant part, perhaps even more than that one third difference.

If you say so.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Yes. Why do you ask?

So then the problem is those working conditions, not the fact that 15-year olds are working. Like sh76 and myself have been arguing this whole time.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So then the problem is those working conditions, not the fact that 15-year olds are working. Like sh76 and myself have been arguing this whole time.

What have I been saying all along?

Originally posted by adam warlock
I've said two or three times by now that the problem isn't about 15 year olds working. The problem is the conditions that they have to work in and the fact the their choices are reduced to starving to death or having to work in miserable jobs. Those are the problems in my view.

Your second paragraph is way to ridiculous to merit anything but this.

You're missing the point of the thread. From the OP's article:

Apple admits using child labour

Apple has admitted that child labour was used at the factories that build its computers, iPods and mobile phones.

At least eleven 15-year-old children were discovered to be working last year in three factories which supply Apple.

I apologize for belaboring the obvious, but this thread was about child labor. I say"child labor" because the controversy was about using children for their labor. You want to bring up poor working conditions, great. That had nothing to do with this thread until you decided to insert that issue into the thread. My point was entirely relevant to child labor and entirely irrelevant to working conditions. I'm still not even sure in what way (or even if) you're disagreeing with me.

As for my crack about coffee breaks and 4 week paid vacations, maybe the spirit of the great Z can help me out with this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
One third difference is already comparable, the Gini will make up a significant part, perhaps even more than that one third difference.

At best, that bring it on par with Mississippi. So, to be comparable, you need to compare Mississippi to the poorest region in the Czech Republic.

Originally posted by sh76
You're missing the point of the thread. From the OP's article:

[b]Apple admits using child labour

Apple has admitted that child labour was used at the factories that build its computers, iPods and mobile phones.

At least eleven 15-year-old children were discovered to be working last year in three factories which supply Apple.

I apologize ...[text shortened]... spirit of the great Z can help me out with this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor[/b]

child labor is only the topic of the top 15 or 20 pct of the linked article.

Originally posted by FMF
"No force". "No fraud". Everything else is alright.

Originally posted by adam warlock
Hmmmm. Aren't you oversimplifying?

Not really. Wajoma's philosophy for this complex world is simplistic.

But if you remove force and fraud from the world I think most of its problems would be solved, don't you think so too.

You sound like him. Good for you.

Originally posted by sh76
You're missing the point of the thread. From the OP's article:

[b]Apple admits using child labour

Apple has admitted that child labour was used at the factories that build its computers, iPods and mobile phones.

At least eleven 15-year-old children were discovered to be working last year in three factories which supply Apple.

I apologize spirit of the great Z can help me out with this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humor[/b]

Excuse me for going a little off topic then. I'm sure that it never happened before.

Just like you I don't think children working at 15/16 is necessarily a bad thing. If they are doing something that they enjoy and is helpful to them.

But in countries were you have factories of multinational corporations children don't usually work there because they want to.

Your crack about the 4 week paid vacations wasn't humorous at all.

Originally posted by FMF
Not really. Wajoma's philosophy for this complex world is simplistic.

[b]But if you remove force and fraud from the world I think most of its problems would be solved, don't you think so too.

You sound like him. Good for you.[/b]

If you want to press that issue further I'm all years.

Ps: Twenty odd words about a complex subject aren't a very good gauge of my opinion about it. I just wanted to know why exactly you disagree with it.

Originally posted by adam warlock
I just wanted to know why exactly you disagree with it.

Go ahead and remove force and fraud from the world.

Originally posted by FMF
Go ahead and remove force and fraud from the world.

I see what you mean. But I thought this was more of a theoretical exercise than anything. I didn't think you were think that I thought that removing force and fraud from the world could be done just like that.

But you do believe that the living conditions of a good part of the population can be meliorated don't you?

Originally posted by adam warlock
But you do believe that the living conditions of a good part of the population can be meliorated don't you?

I see poverty as a form of violence. I see children being robbed of their childhood because their families are destitute. I see corporations from places like the U.K., Japan and the U.S. taking advantage of this to reduce costs and increase their sales. I hear people saying something along the lines of nobody is forcing destitute people to do anything and that interfering with 'market mechanisms' requires "force" and leads to concentration camps. Apparently we need to realize that this is simply the way things are but we can perhaps meliorate - or dissipate - our misgivings by pondering imaginery solutions.

Originally posted by FMF
I see poverty as a form of violence. I see children being robbed of their childhood because their families are destitute. I see corporations from places like the U.K., Japan and the U.S. taking advantage of this to reduce costs and increase their sales. I hear people saying something along the lines of nobody is forcing destitute people to do anything and ...[text shortened]... t we can perhaps meliorate - or dissipate - our misgivings by pondering imaginery solutions.

"I hear people saying something along the lines of nobody is forcing destitute people to do anything and that interfering with 'market mechanisms' requires "force" and leads to concentration camps."
Who says such things?! Leads to concentration camps?! Interfering with market mechanism has to be done if one wants to achieve a less differentiated society at an economic level. I think this is the bulk of Stiglitz's work. When you have asymmetric and partial information on markets their natural evolution only leads to more unbalanced situations. So governments have to steer markets a little bit on order to counteract on that effect.

"Apparently we need to realize that this is simply the way things are but we can perhaps meliorate - or dissipate - our misgivings by pondering imaginery solutions."
Yes this is simply the way things are but this isn't the way things have to be. And I really don't get why refer to the solutions as being imaginary. If you feel that things aren't alright you should get together with people that think like you, think together, discuss ideas, organize, act and learn from the mistakes.

Originally posted by adam warlock
I really don't get why refer to the solutions as being imaginary.

Good luck removing force and fraud from the world.

Originally posted by FMF
Good luck removing force and fraud from the world.

Again:

I see what you mean. But I thought this was more of a theoretical exercise than anything. I didn't think you were think that I thought that removing force and fraud from the world could be done just like that.

Which part of that you didn't understand?