Originally posted by adam warlockI watched the first two and a half minutes. I assume it's about the U.S. supporting various dictators and ousting democratically elected leaders in Latin America, which it has done for many decades. I don't see how that suddenly makes Chavez a good guy, however. Nor do I see how it justifies Chavez hampering free press, locking up political opponents, etc.
Educate yourself, please: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3739500579629840148#
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIf you'd seen it all you'd know the answer to these questions. You will know why he is largely a good figure for a substantial part of the population of Venezuela, and you'll see why those assertions of him hampering free press and locking up political prisoners don't hold up to serious scrutiny.
I don't see how that suddenly makes Chavez a good guy, however. Nor do I see how it justifies Chavez hampering free press, locking up political opponents, etc.
It is a hour and half and it'll help you dispelling many myths about Chavez and current day Venezuela.
Michael Parenti also has a few videos on Chavez on youtube and they are smaller. Maybe you'd want to start there instead of this long video. If you want I can link them here too.
http://www.michaelparenti.org/GoodVenezuela.pdf
Originally posted by adam warlockWhy don't you start by holding up the OP to serious scrutiny?
If you'd seen it all you'd know the answer to these questions. You will know why he is largely a good figure for a substantial part of the population of Venezuela, and you'll see why those assertions of him hampering free press and locking up political prisoners don't hold up to serious scrutiny.
It is a hour and half and it'll help you dispelling ma ...[text shortened]... . If you want I can link them here too.
http://www.michaelparenti.org/GoodVenezuela.pdf
If you want to see press hampering, political prisoners, civil liberties being cu down and other such things that are the hallmark of democracy you better look at Colombia or Honduras.
You have a much stronger case in those places, but since they aren't reported by the mass media let's just pretend it doesn't happen.
Originally posted by adam warlockWhat makes you think I support the leaders of Colombia or Honduras?
If you want to see press hampering, political prisoners, civil liberties being cu down and other such things that are the hallmark of democracy you better look at Colombia or Honduras.
You have a much stronger case in those places, but since they aren't reported by the mass media let's just pretend it doesn't happen.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraNothing. That's why I didn't say you supported them.What I did say is the bases of your criticism on Chavez would have a lot more to stand on if you targeted those countries.
What makes you think I support the leaders of Colombia or Honduras?
There's a big difference.
Originally posted by adam warlockMake a thread about Uribe and I will most likely criticize him.
Nothing. That's why I didn't say you supported them.What I did say is the bases of your criticism on Chavez would have a lot more to stand if you target those countries.
There's a big difference.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraI'd consider it to be very suspicious if I didn't know more about what happened. The fact is that I do and no1 already linked to something that seems to be very relevant.
Don't you think it's mightily convenient that a politician is locked up as soon as he turns his back on Chavez?
And this didn't happen as soon as he turned his back on Chavez did it? There are more people that turned their back on Chavez and I don't see them being imprisoned.
If you want to bash on Chavez for those things just know that you have more worthy targets right near Venezuela.
Chavez major sin is to be for the people instead of being for the oligarchy in a region that isn't used to that. Just see the full documentary if you can, or just start with the Parenti text.
Originally posted by KazetNagorraIt's rather disappointing that you are parroting blatantly false claims.
Don't you think it's mightily convenient that a politician is locked up as soon as he turns his back on Chavez?
Baduel was actually arrested in April 2009, more than a year and a half after he broke with Chavez and opposed the proposed Constitutional reforms.
Apparently his opposition to Chavez did not start until after Chavez had removed him from the post of Defense Minister. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/05/2010585053967899.html
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iLIKmsVNZwwsII0U4pR08g_Qho1QD9FIBSIG0
Butchers beware: Venezuela cracks down on prices
By FABIOLA SANCHEZ (AP) – 22 hours ago
CARACAS, Venezuela — It's getting harder to put meat on the table in Venezuela and the government has been blaming the butchers, arresting dozens on charges of flouting price controls.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Friday night, however, that he disagrees with the tactic of putting butchers behind bars.
"Don't mess with the butchers," Chavez said in a televised speech. "The butcher isn't the one who's to blame."
He called on officials to instead scrutinize distributors and big players in the beef business, saying if they're violating price controls "what must be done is expropriate everything from them."
At least 40 butchers were detained last week on charges of speculation for allegedly driving up their prices. Some say they were held at a military base and were later strip-searched when turned over to police.
Cold cases are empty — or display only chicken — at many of Caracas' butcher shops. Chain supermarkets and crowded municipal markets often offer cuts, but only in small quantities.
Butchers and wholesalers say they have the same problem facing many other industries: government price controls have eliminated profit margins. The recent arrests have prompted some to stop selling beef altogether for fear of ending up behind bars — adding to the scarcity.
"We've been working all our lives here and we've never been through this before, where they take you away, strip you, take off everything down to your underwear and then put you in a cell," said butcher Omar Cedeno, who was held for two days before being released last week.
He said officials of the consumer protection agency arrived at his Caracas shop with military police, and after citing him for selling beef above the regulated price one official asked him to follow them to "have a chat."
Cedeno was taken away in a truck with soldiers to Fort Tiuna, where he was held along with seven other butchers. They were taken the next day to a courthouse cell, where they were strip-searched, he said.
At least 32 other butchers were also charged last week. If convicted, they could face two to six years in prison.
The government says butchers can charge 17 bolivars — about $4 — for a kilogram of beef. Butchers say they have to pay 14 bolivars — about $3 — for the meat leaving them no margin to cover the other costs of their business.
Some had been charging 24 to 40 bolivars a kilo, depending on the cut, until last week's raids stopped them from selling any beef at all.
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Chavez's socialist government has imposed price controls on many basic foods to combat "savage capitalism" and it blames shortages on growing demand due to rising incomes of the poor.
Cattle ranchers, though, say supplies have suffered because price controls and other government policies have kept prices unchanged since 2008 even as inflation — the highest in Latin America — has sent their costs skyrocketing.
Venezuela was self-sufficient in beef in 2003, but it imported 52 percent of what it consumed last year, according to the national cattle ranchers' association.
Despite rising demand, the ranchers are raising fewer cattle. The association said the country had 12 million head this year, down from 13.5 million in 1998.
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