20 Feb 09
Originally posted by shavixmirRon Paul?
[b]What do you mean communism was wrong?
Who the hell opposed the nazis while the jews and the capitalists kept dealing with them?
Who opposed Franco?
Who opposed Stalin in the Soviet Union itself?
Who's managed to build trade unions, worker's rights, free health care, etc.
Who opposed the Vietnam war?
Who opposed the Iraq war?
Who opposes the Israeli behaviour in Gaza?
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by Dace AcePutin warns US to eschew socialism
If only a few Americans take her seriously, that does not make us incorrect.
Millions believed in Communism, but they were wrong. A large number of sheep in a flock does not make it smart or correct.
Clarice Feldman
What is the world coming to? Pat Dollard links to Peter Goodman's report the Russian leader warned the US against adopting socialism because it doesn't work:
Russian Prime Minister Vladamir Putin has said the US should take a lesson from the pages of Russian history and not exercise “excessive intervention in economic activity and blind faith in the state’s omnipotence”.
“In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state’s role absolute,” Putin said during a speech at the opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. “In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated.”[Snip.]
Sounding more like Barry Goldwater than the former head of the KGB, Putin said, “Nor should we turn a blind eye to the fact that the spirit of free enterprise, including the principle of personal responsibility of businesspeople, investors, and shareholders for their decisions, is being eroded in the last few months. There is no reason to believe that we can achieve better results by shifting responsibility onto the state.”
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by MacSwainI take it you are aware of what Putin's power base is now? So why the surprise? As for the KGB, it had almost nothing at all to do with "socialism". It was surely nothing more than an agency enforcing the wishes of the authoritarian Stalinist bureaucracy.
Sounding more like Barry Goldwater than the former head of the KGB, Putin said, “Nor should we turn a blind eye to the fact that the spirit of free enterprise, including the principle of personal responsibility of businesspeople, investors, and shareholders for their decisions, is being eroded in the last few months. There is no reason to believe that we can achieve better results by shifting responsibility onto the state.”
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by MacSwainFunny that one of the most salient political points made in my lifetime by a world leader comes from a nationalist whom I general dislike on those grounds.
Putin warns US to eschew socialism
Clarice Feldman
What is the world coming to? Pat Dollard links to Peter Goodman's report the Russian leader warned the US against adopting socialism because it doesn't work:
Russian Prime Minister Vladamir Putin has said the US should take a lesson from the pages of Russian history and not exercise “excessive interv ...[text shortened]... ason to believe that we can achieve better results by shifting responsibility onto the state.”
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by Dace AceThey're not communists.
Speaking of bloody stories, here are the mass murder numbers sponsered by communist governments:
20 million in the Soviet Union
65 million in the People's Republic of China
1 million in Vietnam
2 million in North Korea
2 million in Cambodia
1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
150,000 in Latin America
1.7 million in Africa
1.5 million in Afghanistan
Communists. That's right.
They're State-capitalists who call themselves communism.
What is communism? And how does that correlate to the behaviour of these States?
See.
There you go. It's not that difficult.
Google: "Dialectic materialism" and I'm sure you'll draw the same conclusion.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by Dace AceThere have been attempts to create "communist states". But that's about it.
In the history of the world, has there ever been a communist state? And what was it?
Communism is sort of a half-way house between capitalism and anarchy (Statelessness... sort of like laissez faire capitalism, one could say).
Dialectics argues that capitalism will become communism on its own accord.
Most communists would not agree that the Soviet Union, for example, was communist. Indeed, the USSR actively hunted down communists and sent them to the Goulag.
24 Feb 09
Originally posted by shavixmirSo, when you say "opposed", do you mean physically opposed (fighting, guns, etc...) or do you mean sitting at the coffee shop and saying "Yea, I oppose ______ (fill in the blank.)"
What do you mean communism was wrong?
Who the hell opposed the nazis while the jews and the capitalists kept dealing with them?
Who opposed Franco?
Who opposed Stalin in the Soviet Union itself?
Who's managed to build trade unions, worker's rights, free health care, etc.
Who opposed the Vietnam war?
Who opposed the Iraq war?
Who oppos ...[text shortened]... unists. That's right.
You're mistaking State capitalism for communism. End of bloody story.
25 Feb 09
Originally posted by Dace AceWell...
So, when you say "opposed", do you mean physically opposed (fighting, guns, etc...) or do you mean sitting at the coffee shop and saying "Yea, I oppose ______ (fill in the blank.)"
You have heard of the Reikstag being blown up, haven't you?
And you have heard of the Spanish civil war, haven't you?
There you go.
25 Feb 09
Originally posted by shavixmirYou mean the Reichstag fire. It was an arson job, no explosives. And this small group of communist, in there poorly planned short-sighted action, was pivotal in helping Hitler in establishing the Enabling Act. That set in motion a smoother path for Hitler to placing himself as a dictator. Not so good.
Well...
You have heard of the Reikstag being blown up, haven't you?
And you have heard of the Spanish civil war, haven't you?
There you go.
As far as the Spanish Civil War, I do believe that the Republicans (which gives me a chuckle) didn't do so well. The goal of the PCE (Communist Party of Spain) was to use a veil of legitimate democratic institutions to outlaw the right and to convert the state into the Soviet vision of a "people's republic" with total leftist domination.
Are you seeing a glimmer of communism in Obama?