12 Feb 10
Originally posted by Seitsethese are some really profound and excellent questions, i really wish i was more brainy so that i could tackle them, hopefully someone shall 🙂
Very interesting way to approach it, indeed. This is why corporate
governance is, in my opinion, such an important issue: for whom are
the companies working for and towards which stakeholders (and to
what extent) are they accountable for. The typical dichotomy is the
shareholder vs. stakeholder approach. And even within the stakeholder
approach there is ...[text shortened]... s in general. A good start would be to differentiate the
key societal role played by banks.
12 Feb 10
Originally posted by spruce112358Greece has public spending of 40% of GDP - about the same as the US. The Gini coefficient is .33, which is above the EU average (i.e. more inequality of income).
Why are you blaming the collapse of Greece on capitalism? Greece is collapsing because of a classic socialist spending binge -- in which every government worker gets tens of thousands of euros of borrowed money. Nothing bad happens immediately, and approval ratings go up. So the benefits get expanded to other classes -- more is borrowed -- and approval ...[text shortened]... buy second and third country homes and sleek BMWs?
Outrageous! Counterrevolutionary!
Greece is not "collapsing", but most of its economic woes are due to corruption and undertaxation.
12 Feb 10
3 edits
it seems that what has happened to Greece on a massive scale is symptomatic of what has happened to individuals at a purely domestic level.
Father gets a promotion into the Eurozone which means he can borrow more dosh, but instead of declaring his real income, he becomes self certified and states that he earns more than he actually does, on seeing this, the lenders are falling over themselves to lend him money. It used to be that he could borrow four times his gross salary, now he can get seven and a half times his salary, so he buys a gigantic colonial mansion that he doesn't really need. Mother goes on a spending spree, buying lots of things for the new home. When asked by her creditors about the level of debt she says that its manageable but fails to mention the credit card balances. In their new found status the children are demanding more and more higher rates of pocket money which practically doubles! Everyone is happy until someone gets the jitters and starts poking around! Anyone care to continue the saga? . . .
12 Feb 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe saga continues as follows. Smart investors buy a lot of Greek bonds, which now offer high interest rates because everyone is panicking even though debts and deficits are quite managable still, given the right measures now.
it seems that what has happened to Greece on a massive scale is symptomatic of what has happened to individuals at a purely domestic level.
Father gets a promotion into the Eurozone which means he can borrow more dosh, but instead of declaring his real income, he becomes self certified and states that he earns more than he actually does, on seei ...[text shortened]... til someone gets the jitters and starts poking around! Anyone care to continue the saga? . . .
Remember Warren Buffet's advice: be fearful when others are greedy, be greedy when others are fearful.
12 Feb 10
3 edits
Originally posted by shavixmirIf it were truly capitalism then everyone creating such massive debt would be allowed to go under, as they should. However, like with the US my guess is that those in Greece will be bailed out because they are just too big to fail. That is where your tax money comes in Shav just like here in the US. On the surface its capitalism but underneath it is not the case. The compaines and countries who build such massive debt know that the tax payer will utlimately bail them all out. The question then becomes, if and when they are bailed out, what will stop them from doing it again especially when those responsible will not be allowed to fail and be flushed out of the system? Ifs kinda like GM in the US. The US government has bailed them out so many times yet they continue to expect a different result each time. I heard someone say that in a true capitalist system about 50% of the businesses started SHOULD go under. So what happens to the system when they are not allowed to for various reasons? I guess we will find out.
Capitalism has proven itself as reliable as a paedophile in a scouting camp.
Banks have collapsed, currencies are targetted (which is worth a thread all on its own) and businesses are taken over under false pretencies, re-sold and working folks are laid off (thinking of English chocolate factories, for example).
My initial question is: Why did we bail he hell is responsible for all this crap? Why don't we just string him up by the balls?
What I find interesting in the US is that the federal government bailed out the banks and then the banks turned around in California and helped bail out the state. So who needs who's help? The US may not "own" the banks but they may as weil. Heck, they even decide what kind of salaries their CEO's get. So when it all hits the fan I suppose those on the left can scream that it is a failure of capitalism, only because the government does not officially own the banks, however, nothing can be further from the truth.
12 Feb 10
Originally posted by spruce112358Spot on. It kinda gives you the feeling that the entire world economy has been built on a house of cards. My guess is that this is just the beginning of the end.
Why are you blaming the collapse of Greece on capitalism? Greece is collapsing because of a classic socialist spending binge -- in which every government worker gets tens of thousands of euros of borrowed money. Nothing bad happens immediately, and approval ratings go up. So the benefits get expanded to other classes -- more is borrowed -- and approval ...[text shortened]... buy second and third country homes and sleek BMWs?
Outrageous! Counterrevolutionary!
12 Feb 10
Originally posted by KazetNagorraCPI is about perceptions of corruption. A measure of stereotypes, more than anything.
Well, in terms of CPI Portugal scores poorly (though not nearly as bad as Greece, Slovakia or Italy), which isn't a perfect measure but at least an indication that something is wrong.