BBC awards “Woman footballer of the year” to male trans

@divegeester said
More women will be legally beaten up by biological males I suppose.

I don’t think it’s a big thing. Yes, it should be debated. But it’s not like we talking massive amounts of situations.

Unlike violence in the home.

@shavixmir said
I don’t think it’s a big thing. Yes, it should be debated. But it’s not like we talking massive amounts of situations.

Unlike violence in the home.

You don’t think biological males being permitted to beat up women in the name of sport is a big thing.

Why doesn’t that surprise me!

@divegeester said
You don’t think biological males being permitted to beat up women in the name of sport is a big thing.

Why doesn’t that surprise me!

Oh please.
On an individual level, perhaps.
But on the grander scale of sports… how often does it happen?

Does it ever work out the other way? I’m sure it does. Or the sports events themselves would be calling foul.
And most experts seem to shrug it off too.
The sports world is surely not reknown for its liberalism?

@shavixmir said
Oh please.
On an individual level, perhaps.
But on the grander scale of sports… how often does it happen?

Does it ever work out the other way? I’m sure it does. Or the sports events themselves would be calling foul.
And most experts seem to shrug it off too.
The sports world is surely not reknown for its liberalism?

How many times would women have to be beaten up by a biological male before you found it important?

Why is your argument based on whataboutism?

@divegeester said
How many times would women have to be beaten up by a biological male before you found it important?

Why is your argument based on whataboutism?

It’s not.
There is a group of right-wingers who keep bringing up trans women in female sports.
Most of the experts, most of the sporting events and most of the athletes have no problems with it.

As I said, I don’t know enough about the subject (whether bone density and strength decrease enough through medication) to make a judgement call one way or another.
So, I would say: let the professionals debate it properly.

As for debates here, all I hear is: “it’s wrong. Trans women beating up women!”

To that I say: what then? If you don’t think they should compete with women, where should they compete? Or, would you just boot them out of sports altogether?

@shavixmir said
It’s not.
There is a group of right-wingers who keep bringing up trans women in female sports.
Most of the experts, most of the sporting events and most of the athletes have no problems with it.

As I said, I don’t know enough about the subject (whether bone density and strength decrease enough through medication) to make a judgement call one way or another.
So, I woul ...[text shortened]... ompete with women, where should they compete? Or, would you just boot them out of sports altogether?

Yes you are… you said earlier that the focus should be on domestic abuse which is whataboutism.

Sporting bodies aren’t debating it, so we are.

@divegeester said
The BBC is trolling licence fee payers once again.

They have awarded their “Woman footballer of the Year” to a male trans player who has failed at least two gender tests. It beggars belief, and it’s clear why the “Defund the BBC” campaign is gaining traction by the day. The UK based Women’s Rights Network has tweeted about this saying “Really!”

Women’s rights once ...[text shortened]... al tea and continue to defend the laughable and ludicrous BBC.

https://www.womensrights.network/

I would react to your post, but am currently dunking a hobnob into a herbal tea. (Peppermint).

True story.


Edit: Just to vex you:

'The BBC provides the commentary on our lives, the soundtrack of the nation. It is one of the most powerful unifying forces in the United Kingdom today.' -

Gavyn Davies

@divegeester said
Yes you are… you said earlier that the focus should be on domestic abuse which is whataboutism.

Sporting bodies aren’t debating it, so we are.

Domestic abuse is a humungous issue.
And far more deserving of one’s attention.

@shavixmir said
Domestic abuse is a humungous issue.
And far more deserving of one’s attention.

How is it more deserving?

Why do you feel that if something else completely unrelated is a bigger problem, that the issue I’m raising here should not be addressed?

Why are you trying to close down this discussion with these strawman arguments whilst at the same time saying someone else should discuss it?

@shavixmir said
It’s not.
There is a group of right-wingers who keep bringing up trans women in female sports.
Most of the experts, most of the sporting events and most of the athletes have no problems with it.

As I said, I don’t know enough about the subject (whether bone density and strength decrease enough through medication) to make a judgement call one way or another.
So, I woul ...[text shortened]... ompete with women, where should they compete? Or, would you just boot them out of sports altogether?

“There is a group of right-wingers who keep bringing up trans women in female sports.
Most of the experts, most of the sporting events and most of the athletes have no problems with it. ”

made up out of whole cloth…where do you get your info?

@divegeester said
How is it more deserving?

Why do you feel that if something else completely unrelated is a bigger problem, that the issue I’m raising here should not be addressed?

Why are you trying to close down this discussion with these strawman arguments whilst at the same time saying someone else should discuss it?

???

My position on this issue has not changed in two years.
I feel there should be a discussion, in society and the sports world about the situation.

Other than that, to me it’s a complete nothing burger.

@shavixmir said
???

My position on this issue has not changed in two years.
I feel there should be a discussion, in society and the sports world about the situation.

Other than that, to me it’s a complete nothing burger.

Do you feel biological males should not be permitted to compete in women’s sports?

@divegeester said
Do you feel biological males should not be permitted to compete in women’s sports?

I don’t know.
It probably depends which sport, what age any transition took place, how long estrogen has been taken, how well testosterone suppresents work, etc.

If there’s been major surgery and estrogen from before the age of 20… how much “biological” male is left?
If I read it all correctly (a few years ago when this debate first started), the muscle mass, testosterone and bone density are equal to biologically born females.

So, like, yah.. there’s that.

And there are biologically born women with higher than average testosterone levels as well. They can’t compete either?

So, there’s that too.

It doesn’t feel right, somehow. I get that as well.
However, feelings are feelings are feelings. What do the facts say?

Here’s a 2021 report:

https://cces.ca/transgender-women-athletes-and-elite-sport-scientific-review

Available evidence indicates trans women who have undergone testosterone suppression have no clear biological advantages over cis women in elite sport.

This is a 2024 study by the International Olympic committee (whatever the hell that is):
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/rcna148437

They find that trans women often have a relative disadvantage in sports.
I didn’t bother reading up on the how, what and why.

So, my conclusion is: this is way too complicated for me to state yah or nay on.
The sports world itself seems fine by it. As do many female athletes.

And that’s that, I guess.

@shavixmir said
I don’t know.
It probably depends which sport, what age any transition took place, how long estrogen has been taken, how well testosterone suppresents work, etc.

If there’s been major surgery and estrogen from before the age of 20… how much “biological” male is left?
If I read it all correctly (a few years ago when this debate first started), the muscle mass, testoster ...[text shortened]...
The sports world itself seems fine by it. As do many female athletes.

And that’s that, I guess.

The whole thing is bloody ridiculous and over complicated by people who can’t see the obvious solution which is NO biological males cannot compete in women’s sports. Especially boxing and the like.

@divegeester said
The whole thing is bloody ridiculous and over complicated by people who can’t see the obvious solution which is NO biological males cannot compete in women’s sports. Especially boxing and the like.

Except it’s not that simple.
And all serious research disagrees with you.