Debates
14 Jul 23
@wajoma saidNah I enjoy hard sci fi like Jules Verne e.g. The Nautilus ran on a mercury-sodium battery.
Although another funny one was about the fictional motor, the criticism being the fictional motor didn’t obey the laws of thermodynamic dynamic heat transfer or something. Guess Rand should have published the blue prints. If ATY had written it, it’d be more realistic a Milwaukee 9volt rechargeable battery motor 😆
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (written in 1870) inspired modern submarine technology. H.G. Wells' The Land Ironclads likewise inspired modern tanks. Churchill loved that book.
https://issuu.com/julianne.m.johnson/docs/usw_winter_2004/s/10628620
Although some hasty writers have wrongly portrayed Nautilus as “nuclear-powered,” the actual source for her vast reserves of electricity is described as a hugely scaled-up elaboration of a well-known 19thcentury primary battery, the Bunsen cell. Invented in 1841 by German physicist Robert Bunsen (1811-1899) – better known for devising the “Bunsen burner” – the Bunsen cell uses a carbon cathode in nitric acid and a zinc anode in dilute sulfuric acid, with a porous separator between the liquids. The device generates a potential of 1.89 volts, and later versions added potassium dichromate as a depolarizer. 6 Let Captain Nemo describe his fundamental modification:
"Mixed with mercury, sodium forms an amalgam that takes the place of zinc in Bunsen batteries. The mercury is never consumed, only the sodium is used up, and the sea resupplies me with that. Moreover, I can tell you, sodium batteries are more powerful. Their electric motive [sic] force is twice that of zinc batteries."
Had this actually been tried, the reaction of metallic sodium with sulfuric acid would have been exciting to behold.
Despite some ambiguity in Verne’s description, it also appears that the relatively low voltage of the Bunsen cells is stepped up to a more useful level using a double-wound variant of the induction (i.e., “spark” ) coil invented in Paris by another German, Heinrich Ruhmkorff (1803-1877), around 1850. 7 This same combination of a sodium-based Bunsen cell, probably some kind of periodic interrupter, and a Ruhmkorff coil is described later in the novel as a high-voltage power source for portable undersea lights. Ultimately, Nemo replenishes his sodium supply by distilling seawater and separating out its mineral components at a secret operating base located inside the crater of a volcanic island near the Canary Islands. The energy for this process is derived by burning sea coal, which he and his men mine from the ocean bottom.
23 Jul 23
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_Ironclads
"The Land Ironclads" is a short story by British writer H. G. Wells, which originally appeared in the December 1903 issue of the Strand Magazine...
Wells' land ironclads are...described as steam powered and are "essentially long, narrow, and very strong steel frameworks carrying the engines, and borne on eight pairs of big pedrail wheels, each about ten feet in diameter, each a driving wheel and set upon long axles free to swivel around a common axis. [...] the captain [...] had look-out points at small ports all round the upper edge of the adjustable skirt of twelve-inch ironplating which protected the whole affair, and [...] could also raise or depress a conning-tower set above the port-holes through the centre of the iron top cover."
Riflemen are installed in cabins in the "monsters", being "slung along the sides of and behind and before the great main framework". There the men operate what appear to be mechanically targeting, semi-automatic rifles.
23 Jul 23
Hari Seldon's psychohistory in Isaac Asimov's Foundation series is likewise hard sci-fi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohistory_(fictional)
Psychohistory is a fictional science in Isaac Asimov's Foundation universe which combines history, sociology, and mathematical statistics to make general predictions about the future behavior of very large groups of people, such as the Galactic Empire. It was first introduced in the four short stories (1942–1944) which would later be collected as the 1951 novel Foundation.[1][2]
In-universe
Axioms
Psychohistory depends on the idea that, while one cannot foresee the actions of a particular individual, the laws of statistics as applied to large groups of people could predict the general flow of future events. Asimov used the analogy of a gas: An observer has great difficulty in predicting the motion of a single molecule in a gas, but with the kinetic theory can predict the mass action of the gas to a high level of accuracy. Asimov applied this concept to the population of his fictional Galactic Empire, which numbered one quintillion. The character responsible for the science's creation, Hari Seldon, established two axioms:
the population whose behaviour was modelled should be sufficiently large to represent the entire society.
the population should remain in ignorance of the results of the application of psychohistorical analyses because if it is aware, the group changes its behaviour.
Ebling Mis added these axioms:
there would be no fundamental change in the society
human reactions to stimuli would remain constant.
Golan Trevize in Foundation and Earth added this axiom:
humans are the only sentient intelligence in the galaxy.
The Prime Radiant
Asimov presents the Prime Radiant, a device designed by Hari Seldon and built by Yugo Amaryl, as storing the psychohistorical equations showing the future development of humanity.
23 Jul 23
Y'all don't have to fool with AVJOE!!!! Out of my realm. Methinks Sonhouse a perfect candidate for this issue!
I'll just wait for Vivify to respond on the Disadvantage thread, he pulled a segue on page 2, something about the rich Hilton girl, no one is writing about her situtation, so he is modifying his post.
23 Jul 23
@averagejoe1 saidParis Hilton's Dad isn't going to give her all his money thank goodness.
Y'all don't have to fool with AVJOE!!!! Out of my realm. Methinks Sonhouse a perfect candidate for this issue!
I'll just wait for Vivify to respond on the Disadvantage thread, he pulled a segue on page 2, something about the rich Hilton girl, no one is writing about her situtation, so he is modifying his post.
@athousandyoung saidThe speech stands alone, which is probably why you wanted to talk about everything but the speech, like the viability of a fictional motor, characters from other books, the goobermint producing pieces of paper.
Then why did you post the speech sans context?
You didn't provide excerpts either. You simply posted five pages of a fictional speech without context or comment. Lazy!
BTW you’re right.
Edit: I just relished, you didn’t read that either.
23 Jul 23
@athousandyoung saidI am being sincere, here , with you, that what the Hilton's do with their money is of no interest, nor consequence, to me, or anyone else to my knowledge.
Paris Hilton's Dad isn't going to give her all his money thank goodness.
PLEASE tell us conservatives/repubs why that is a big problem among many members of the Forum.
23 Jul 23
@wajoma saidIf the speech stood alone Rand wouldn't have written over 1100 pages of content around it.
The speech stands alone, which is probably why you wanted to talk about everything but the speech, like the viability of a fictional motor, characters from other books, the goobermint producing pieces of paper.
BTW you’re right.
Edit: I just relished, you didn’t read that either.
I'm the only one talking about the speech. I posted an excerpt and an analysis of the place the speech holds in the story. YOU haven't talked about the speech.
23 Jul 23
@averagejoe1 saidBecause the hoarding of money by those who have obtained it without earning it or by any merit of their own is extremely damaging to the economy.
I am being sincere, here , with you, that what the Hilton's do with their money is of no interest, nor consequence, to me, or anyone else to my knowledge.
PLEASE tell us conservatives/repubs why that is a big problem among many members of the Forum.
Adam Smith:
There is no point more difficult to account for than the right we conceive men to have to dispose of their goods after death.
Thomas Jefferson
A power to dispose of estates for ever is manifestly absurd. The earth and the fulness of it belongs to every generation, and the preceding one can have no right to bind it up from posterity. Such extension of property is quite unnatural.
From the Earth to the Moon is another example of good hard sci fi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_gun
A space gun, sometimes called a Verne gun because of its appearance in From the Earth to the Moon by Jules Verne, is a method of launching an object into space using a large gun- or cannon-like structure. Space guns could thus potentially provide a method of non-rocket spacelaunch.
@athousandyoung saidAdam Smith, that it is difficult to properly dispose of one's wealth at death is a real job. For the owner of the money. Nothing to be dictated by govt. Correct. "(There is an individual need to fulfill self interest, which results in a benefit to society". It's in the book!
Because the hoarding of money by those who have obtained it without earning it or by any merit of their own is extremely damaging to the economy.
Adam Smith:
There is no point more difficult to account for than the right we conceive men to have to dispose of their goods after death.
Thomas Jefferson
A power to dispose of estates for ever is manifestl ...[text shortened]... have no right to bind it up from posterity. Such extension of property is quite unnatural.
https://www.investopedia.com/updates/adam-smith-wealth-of-nations/
Jefferson, he used words like absurd and unnatural. So he implies that it is natural for everything to belong to every generation, and you take that literally? Is this part of the Marx mantra that everyone one owns everything? That may mean Nirvana to you, but, hey, that ain't what Jefferson meant.
Double Whew!
23 Jul 23
@averagejoe1 saidNow, back to this question,,,,,,no links please and no quoting what someone else like Adam Smith and Jefferson said...
I am being sincere, here , with you, that what the Hilton's do with their money is of no interest, nor consequence, to me, or anyone else to my knowledge.
PLEASE tell us conservatives/repubs why that is a big problem among many members of the Forum.
WHAT is the problem with you libs who are obsessed with other people's money?,
23 Jul 23
@athousandyoung saidDon’t sweat it, I can see the play now, you suckered me pretty good, for a while there I thought we were going to seriously discuss something. But you, like everyone here, myself included is just here because we like the sound of our own keyboards. You lean on the ‘Ctrl’ ‘C’, ‘Ctrl’ ‘V’ a lot more than most but, ya know what they say: “fool me once, fool on you, fool me twice, fool on you.’
If the speech stood alone Rand wouldn't have written over 1100 pages of content around it.
I'm the only one talking about the speech. I posted an excerpt and an analysis of the place the speech holds in the story. YOU haven't talked about the speech.
Won’t catch me so easily next time. ;^)
23 Jul 23
@athousandyoung saidWalt Disney school of economics, rich folk can’t afford to ‘hoard’ money for even a day. It has to be invested otherwise it’s being whittled by the tax know as inflation.
Because the hoarding of money by those who have obtained it without earning it or by any merit of their own is extremely damaging to the economy.
Adam Smith:
There is no point more difficult to account for than the right we conceive men to have to dispose of their goods after death.
Thomas Jefferson
A power to dispose of estates for ever is manifestl ...[text shortened]... have no right to bind it up from posterity. Such extension of property is quite unnatural.