@averagejoe1 saidIt's been pointed out multiple times. The donut shop guy did get bailed out. The average amount of loan forgiveness for small businesses was $50,000 more than the student debt relief plan that was struck down by the courts.
Fairness not up for debate, true. Debate is about can Biden forgive the debts. Fair points.
But just between you and me, liberals are all about fair, even your VP, Kamala, said last year, everything should be where we all end up in the same place at the end of the day. She said that.
So, stipulating to weennie libs wanting everything fair, I ask again, whi ...[text shortened]... f the guy with the donut shop who cannot sell donuts, due to Covid, and also due to Biden inflation?
It's only student loans that the courts have decided is too "major" to offer relief for.
Awful arrogant of the courts to interject their personal preferences about what debt should be relieved in an emergency, in direct opposition to the bipartisan, unanimous will of Congress. This is why Justice Kagan called the majority opinion unconstitutional.
By the way, concerning the argument about whether student debt should be relieved, in general, I agree with you. I don't think it's fair that some people paid back their loans while others did not have to. But the courts are not supposed to decide this stuff, as there are no mechanisms to hold them accountable for bad decisions.
10 Jul 23
@no1marauder saidI guess that is a Suzianne-way of saying that everyone was affected. We agree. So what is your point?
You were alive in 2020 and 2021 weren't you?
10 Jul 23
@wildgrass saidWe are at a standoff, what Joe tried to do was unconstitutional, for god sake. So before any deliberations, he had lost when they entered the courtroom. So, Sagan can whine all she wants, she is after the real fact.
It's been pointed out multiple times. The donut shop guy did get bailed out. The average amount of loan forgiveness for small businesses was $50,000 more than the student debt relief plan that was struck down by the courts.
It's only student loans that the courts have decided is too "major" to offer relief for.
Awful arrogant of the courts to interject their personal ...[text shortened]... upposed to decide this stuff, as there are no mechanisms to hold them accountable for bad decisions.
As to the people getting screwed who did the right thing, paid their loans, I think that is not as important an issue as the glaring one of many other people in debt who were ignored by....Joe Biden. And, as to the courts not deciding this stuff, as you say....Somebody had to decide that Joe was violating the Constitution, which he was. Y'all are as guilty as was Judge Roberts when he used the tax laws as a reason to rule on the cost of Obamacare. A tax law. I think he called the premiums taxes!!! So likewise, you bring in a law about loans of veterans as having the same reasoning as the loans of losers. Why, Wilkgrass, it makes my blood boil!!!!
10 Jul 23
@wildgrass saidSpread around evenly, I presume. You may be more up on that than I. Our country should not favor people based on politics. Makes you wonder, what did Biden REALLY want to accomplish by paying for the loans of losers. Why did he pick them? For that matter, why did he pick the DOE of all departments to dole out the money.?
Yes... of course. The federal government spent trillions.
@averagejoe1 saidIt's already been shown to you that Congress passed a law explicitly giving the President, through his Secretary of Education, the authority to waive or modify student loan conditions during a national emergency. Both Trump and Biden had earlier used that authority to pause ALL student loan payments.
We are at a standoff, what Joe tried to do was unconstitutional, for god sake. So before any deliberations, he had lost when they entered the courtroom. So, Sagan can whine all she wants, she is after the real fact.
As to the people getting screwed who did the right thing, paid their loans, I think that is not as important an issue as the glaring one of many othe ...[text shortened]... ans as having the same reasoning as the loans of losers. Why, Wilkgrass, it makes my blood boil!!!!
So what did Joe do here that was "unconstitutional"?
11 Jul 23
@no1marauder saidJust that. We have beat this horse, but you keep showing your colors of enjoying a Dictator Joe, and a congress, who give power to educators to fund students in the world of education. Do you not see how horrible that is?
It's already been shown to you that Congress passed a law explicitly giving the President, through his Secretary of Education, the authority to waive or modify student loan conditions during a national emergency. Both Trump and Biden had earlier used that authority to pause ALL student loan payments.
So what did Joe do here that was "unconstitutional"?
I have been a teacher of students. If they have loans, would it be logical of the school board in my town to let ME decide if the board should forgive those loans? Education of students is dear to my heart, I will not turn my back on them. Try not to be like Sonhouse, and answer this premise straight out. You will not.
@averagejoe1 saidThe Department of Education is a federal agency that regulates various government programs concerning education including the student loan progtams; they aren't "educators" but government bureaucrats.
Just that. We have beat this horse, but you keep showing your colors of enjoying a Dictator Joe, and a congress, who give power to educators to fund students in the world of education. Do you not see how horrible that is?
I have been a teacher of students. If they have loans, would it be logical of the school board in my town to let ME decide if the board should forg ...[text shortened]... my back on them. Try not to be like Sonhouse, and answer this premise straight out. You will not.
And you complaining about the judgment made by Congress doesn't make it "unconstitutional".
11 Jul 23
@no1marauder saidLet's try this. The President has asked congress to deal with the loans that all of the nurses in hospitals have for their training to be nurses.
The Department of Education is a federal agency that regulates various government programs concerning education including the student loan progtams; they aren't "educators" but government bureaucrats.
And you complaining about the judgment made by Congress doesn't make it "unconstitutional".
Congress decided to give the FDA (fooddrug adm) the power to make all decisions to forgive all of those loans. That is , the govt agency which oversees medical care, etc. So they are going to decide whether or not the loans should be forgivemn.
Do you get it now? THEY, who are all connected up with the nurses, with a bit of self-serving going on, have got the power to free up their employee/nurses from debt.
OK, start writing about the constitution, law, judges, presidents, maybe a bit of Trump for seasoning, all you want to, to muddy up this fantastic example of how wrong all of this is. Next, you dependent libs will tap the FAA to forgive loans of the flight attendants!!!
11 Jul 23
@averagejoe1 saidThe Department of Education is the entity that made the loans and who the balances are owed to. Who else would be in charge of waiving or modifying them?
Let's try this. The President has asked congress to deal with the loans that all of the nurses in hospitals have for their training to be nurses.
Congress decided to give the FDA (fooddrug adm) the power to make all decisions to forgive all of those loans. That is , the govt agency which oversees medical care, etc. So they are going to decide whether or not the ...[text shortened]... l of this is. Next, you dependent libs will tap the FAA to forgive loans of the flight attendants!!!
Joe, I get you don't like the law. I bet you saw red when Donald Trump used it to pause every borrower's repayments, not matter what their economic situation.
However, your dislike of a law doesn't make it "unconstitutional."
@no1marauder saidI am wrong then, you got me, I am serious. You are telling me that that Dept of Education, a/ka/ DOE, made loans to people who wanted the money to go to college, a/k/a college tuition loans.?
The Department of Education is the entity that made the loans and who the balances are owed to. Who else would be in charge of waiving or modifying them?
Joe, I get you don't like the law. I bet you saw red when Donald Trump used it to pause every borrower's repayments, not matter what their economic situation.
However, your dislike of a law doesn't make it "unconstitutional."
It is that simple?. No other entity involved? So, the payee on the promissory note payments, the checks of the students, were written 'Department of Education'?????? If that is the case, then I stand corrected on all of my comments. Send me proof that the monthly payments were made out to "Department of Education' and i will relent on this discussion, you will win.l
@averagejoe1 saidThere are some student loans still held by private companies or banks BUT:
I am wrong then, you got me, I am serious. You are telling me that that Dept of Education, a/ka/ DOE, made loans to people who wanted the money to go to college, a/k/a college tuition loans.?
It is that simple?. No other entity involved? So, the payee on the promissory note payments, the checks of the students, were written 'Department of Education'?????? If tha ...[text shortened]... ents were made out to "Department of Education' and i will relent on this discussion, you will win.l
"Students can obtain educational loans from the government or private lenders. More than 90 percent of outstanding student loans are from the federal government."
https://marketrealist.com/loans/who-owns-student-loan-debt/
Only government loans were eligible for reduction or forgiveness under Biden's plan: "Those with private student loans, specifically, are not eligible for Biden's plan and there doesn't seem to be immediate relief on the horizon. "
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/private-student-loan-forgiveness/
12 Jul 23
@no1marauder saidI don't blame you for your indirect answer, I know that there is on-purpose confusion afoot. You even parse who gets their loan forgiven by which entities........Marauder, it is either right to forgive 'the loans' , or it is not right.
There are some student loans still held by private companies or banks BUT:
"Students can obtain educational loans from the government or private lenders. More than 90 percent of outstanding student loans are from the federal government."
https://marketrealist.com/loans/who-owns-student-loan-debt/
Only government loans were eligible for reduction or forgiveness un ...[text shortened]... immediate relief on the horizon. "
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/private-student-loan-forgiveness/
Tough issue I guess, my common sense approach thus prevails.
12 Jul 23
@averagejoe1 saidAs happens many times here, you asked a question, got a direct answer you don't like and then pretended your question wasn't answered.
I don't blame you for your indirect answer, I know that there is on-purpose confusion afoot. You even parse who gets their loan forgiven by which entities........Marauder, it is either right to forgive 'the loans' , or it is not right.
Tough issue I guess, my common sense approach thus prevails.
Every cent of debt that would have been waived and every loan which would have been modified under Biden's plan was made by the US government.
12 Jul 23
@no1marauder saidWait, you have not addressed the payment of loans that were made by stewardesses and bu nurses. Should we pay all their loans?. Why or why not
As happens many times here, you asked a question, got a direct answer you don't like and then pretended your question wasn't answered.
Every cent of debt that would have been waived and every loan which would have been modified under Biden's plan was made by the US government.