Breaking; Has Putin Blinked?

@kevcvs57 said
It’s still a shame that a relatively small country that suffered with and at least as much as the Russians during WWII and before that under Stalin has to pay for Russia’s peace of mind with their sovereignty.
Something else just occurred to me, even if the US and UK are stupid enough to attack Russia over Ukraine there is no onus on the rest of NATO to join them. The NATO alliance responsibilities only kick in if someone attacks a NATO member.

Oh, I feel for Ukraine.
No doubts.

And I do think they should be a sovereign nation making their own way in the world. Absolutely.

But with extreme right-wing groups financed by the West and poor Eastern Ukranians getting a crap deal because of it, and wanting to hug closer to Russia, it’s a very complicated situation.

Do they sell their soul to the US or to Russia?
Eventually, their best bet would be the EU. But the Russian speaking area’s production (like fridges) sells on the Russian market. If they join the EU, they can’t compete with cheaper designs from other EU nations.

This sort of thing.
And to hear Biden yack on about an imminent invasion… which was going to take place yesterday, now in the near future and Russia is going to stage an attack so they have reason to invade, etc etc. Yadda yadda yadda… please!

As of the US gives one damn about any civilians anywhere in the world. Who the fukk are they trying to kid?

Have you pondered, yet, what happens if Russia does invade?
Have you counted the tumbling domino stones?

The rhetoric is absurd.

@shavixmir said
Have you pondered, yet, what happens if Russia does invade?

We won't need to ponder. He's already shelled the first school, the rest will follow soon.

@shavixmir said
Oh, I feel for Ukraine.
No doubts.

And I do think they should be a sovereign nation making their own way in the world. Absolutely.

But with extreme right-wing groups financed by the West and poor Eastern Ukranians getting a crap deal because of it, and wanting to hug closer to Russia, it’s a very complicated situation.

Do they sell their soul to the US or to Russi ...[text shortened]... pens if Russia does invade?
Have you counted the tumbling domino stones?

The rhetoric is absurd.

What’s your answer shav?
Step back and let the minority in the east dominate the vast majority who want to join the EU and westernise?
Let the Russians roll up to Poland’s border and then step back some more?
Russia has stated quite clearly and quite loudly that it demands a return to its soviet era sphere of influence, you seem concerned about right wing ultra nationalists in little Ukraine but don’t seem to mind the right wing ultra nationalist regime in massive Russia. I know which one concerns me the most.
The unpalatable answer for the eastern border with Russia is a democratic vote ( not overseen by Russia or Ukraine ) in the region and if the predominantly ethnic Russian population want place the region under the kremlins flag so be it. But then they and and the Kremlin get out Kievs face when it comes Ukraines direction of travel. Unfortunately you will find the Kremlin dead set against that option.
Or have you got another option.

@kevcvs57 said
What’s your answer shav?
Step back and let the minority in the east dominate the vast majority who want to join the EU and westernise?
Let the Russians roll up to Poland’s border and then step back some more?
Russia has stated quite clearly and quite loudly that it demands a return to its soviet era sphere of influence, you seem concerned about right wing ultra nationali ...[text shortened]... fortunately you will find the Kremlin dead set against that option.
Or have you got another option.

What are you going to do?
Maybe withdraw NATO troops from countries bordering Russia?

Mhmm? I dunno.

If Russia invades and we sanction, we're basically going to collapse the whole Western economy.
It's sabre rattling at its finest.

@shavixmir said
What are you going to do?
Maybe withdraw NATO troops from countries bordering Russia?

Mhmm? I dunno.

If Russia invades and we sanction, we're basically going to collapse the whole Western economy.
It's sabre rattling at its finest.

Bull. Russia is financially a lot weaker than Europe. We can do without them as easily as we can do without England.

What we can't do with is the loss of reputation if we let Putin march his armies into Ukraine - and then Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. That would ruin Europe.

@shallow-blue said
Bull. Russia is financially a lot weaker than Europe. We can do without them as easily as we can do without England.

What we can't do with is the loss of reputation if we let Putin march his armies into Ukraine - and then Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. That would ruin Europe.

Complete and utter BS.

Russian oligarchs, as they are known, own half of London and 1/4 of New York.
China is siding with Russia, and the US is so much in debt to China that you can’t comprehend that figure.

You will be pinched, economically, so bad, you’ll wish you had a scrotum.

Let’s just check the news, shall we:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60428211

Russian troop build up is the "most significant military mobilisation" in Europe since WW2… says the US.

According to Godwin, yer fukked!

@shavixmir said
Oh, I feel for Ukraine.
No doubts.

And I do think they should be a sovereign nation making their own way in the world. Absolutely.

But with extreme right-wing groups financed by the West and poor Eastern Ukranians getting a crap deal because of it, and wanting to hug closer to Russia, it’s a very complicated situation.

Do they sell their soul to the US or to Russi ...[text shortened]... pens if Russia does invade?
Have you counted the tumbling domino stones?

The rhetoric is absurd.

I couldn't agree more.
As much as we like to simplify
things, situations are rarely black
and white. Even from Putin's POV,
we, as a nation, are historically hostile
towards left leaning countries in The
Western Hemisphere, even if they
happened to determine their form
of government by vox populi.

@shavixmir said
You will be pinched, economically, so bad, you’ll wish you had a scrotum.

Go back to London. The Netherlands doesn't want you traitor any more.

@shallow-blue said
Go back to London. The Netherlands doesn't want you traitor any more.

Uhuh.

Sorry to be rational and my apologies for pointing out the obvious.

@shavixmir said
What are you going to do?
Maybe withdraw NATO troops from countries bordering Russia?

Mhmm? I dunno.

If Russia invades and we sanction, we're basically going to collapse the whole Western economy.
It's sabre rattling at its finest.

I’m going to place sanctions come what may, prosperity is nice but it’s not worth a Russian dominated Europe.
The next thing I’d do is put every soldier and every weapon nato can muster on the border with a Russian occupied Ukraine and nothing will move from Russia to the west until Putin understands that there will be no Russian empire to the west.
Sounds extreme I know but Putin has made his intentions clear.

@kevcvs57 said
I’m going to place sanctions come what may, prosperity is nice but it’s not worth a Russian dominated Europe.
The next thing I’d do is put every soldier and every weapon nato can muster on the border with a Russian occupied Ukraine and nothing will move from Russia to the west until Putin understands that there will be no Russian empire to the west.
Sounds extreme I know but Putin has made his intentions clear.

Having said that if all Putin wants is Ukraine not joining nato and rights / protection for ethnic Russians then we should comply.
But if you study his own demands on nato he’s playing a much bigger game.

@kevcvs57 said
I’m going to place sanctions come what may, prosperity is nice but it’s not worth a Russian dominated Europe.
The next thing I’d do is put every soldier and every weapon nato can muster on the border with a Russian occupied Ukraine and nothing will move from Russia to the west until Putin understands that there will be no Russian empire to the west.
Sounds extreme I know but Putin has made his intentions clear.

The same bull crap as in the 80’s.
Oooooohhhh watch out for those pesky Russians… oooooohhhh…

Better dead, than red, eh?

Putin is a psycho. But he’s not going to invade or dominate Europe (any more than the US does).

@shavixmir said
The same bull crap as in the 80’s.
Oooooohhhh watch out for those pesky Russians… oooooohhhh…

Better dead, than red, eh?

Putin is a psycho. But he’s not going to invade or dominate Europe (any more than the US does).

How often can you be blind? Putin already has invaded Georgia - and Ukraine twice! FFS, this is not if or maybe, this is a known habit.

@shavixmir said
The same bull crap as in the 80’s.
Oooooohhhh watch out for those pesky Russians… oooooohhhh…

Better dead, than red, eh?

Putin is a psycho. But he’s not going to invade or dominate Europe (any more than the US does).

What are you babbling about?
Clearly it’s you that’s stuck in the 80s, Russia is about as red as my ass in winter.
This is about an authoritarian right wing regime trying to extend itself beyond its borders, it can hardly go east with China sitting there. Their best option is the one that they are taking, threaten the west and hope that enough of us bottle it and keep caving in to their demands and aggression.
You talk as if The Soviet Union was ever anything more than a Russian empire with a fig leaf of faux socialism to fool the retards on the left in the west.
“ Putin is a psycho. But he’s not going to invade or dominate Europe (any more than the US does).”

Spoken like someone who’s never had their country over run and occupied by a Russian army, yet.

@shallow-blue said
How often can you be blind? Putin already has invaded Georgia - and Ukraine twice! FFS, this is not if or maybe, this is a known habit.

I can only assume some peoples livelihoods are going to be hit when the sanctions are put in place so they are ready to sacrifice Ukraine to the Demigod Putin.
Oh yeah and a swathe of countries up to Germany in the west, but then it was east Germany and Putin’s humiliating exodus from there that is in part driving his imperialism.