17 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziChildren, especially those full of energy, need attention and should not have their movements restricted.
which is why you don't take him to the mall. the link posted by palynka shows just a means of keeping children together in one place, they are being supervised by adults who cannot possible watch over so many without it. furthermore, in a crowded mall if a child can tank free if you hold his hand, why shouldn't he yank free if you hold his leash. and if he ...[text shortened]... s development. i don't even agree with parents making their children go to boarding school.
That's why you leave them home when you go to the mall? I'm having trouble here.
17 Jun 08
Originally posted by ZahlanziAnd feed them, and educate them, and talk to them, and spend time with them...
i simply find the idea that repulsing.
one of the most shameful moments of my countries history(perhaps the most) was when a couple of journalists discovered an orphanage with mentally retarded children tied to their beds, starving. the image was shocking to say the least. makes you ashame of being a human.
and now the dude that created this thread s ...[text shortened]... it is ok to tie children up as long as you do it with a pretty leash. and take them for a walk.
18 Jun 08
Originally posted by NatsiaI find leashes to be over the top, but I know that some kids have different needs and in some cases it might be necessary. I have three kids, including twins, and when they were small I had them in a baby carriage/stroller for a long time so I didn't have to chase them. But my kids are very well behaved, and always have been. I gave them the opportunity to play when appropriate. In public, we have always had a standard that we expected them to adhere to, even at two years of age, they understood this.
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/leash.png
Personally, I think using a body harness for little kids in public places is rather a good idea.
It keeps the little ones from running around acting like hooligans, prevents them from wandering off on their own which probably means that less pedos / sickf_cks have the opportunity to nab them and most im ...[text shortened]... peace of mind as a parent, as well as teaching the child proper public behaviour, bad?
When I see a leashed child, I tell myself that perhaps this child has issues that make it necessary and try not to be judgmental. It's much worse to see a parent verbally demean or spank their child in public.
Now that my kids are older, I give myself and other parents the benefit of the doubt more often, because being a parent is not an easy job, and only gets harder as they get older.
18 Jun 08
If a parent and toddler are each wearing one end of a wrist band with a long strap in the middle, the toddler can safely explore wherever they are (such as a mall or other public place) without being confined to a stroller. Children really will run into a street or respond to a stranger. Wrist straps give freedom of movement without compromising safety, for those experiences when parents don't want to keep the child in a stroller the whole time.
18 Jun 08
Originally posted by ScriabinI can only hope with time that you feel less of the loss and more of the life and joy that was your son.
".... But even if you would die ten times for him, you would not be able to take the slightest part of his destiny upon yourself."
It is well, I believe, to think long and deeply on these words.
From my own experience of an attempted suicide in 1988 all I can say that it was more about him than anyone else. Its almost comforting to have a logical peg to pin guilt and apportion blame, but the sad truth is that while the letter probably did excaserbate his mental condition he may have long toyed with the idea and in this sense the letter may have only served to confirm long felt fears and insecurities.
I was lucky that I chose the less violent option of pills and alcohol. Ironically as I was ingesting my final cocktail, I was listening to Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush's duet "Don't give up".
Surviving the attempt was a liberating experience in that I have appreciated every day of drawing breath since. All I know at the time is that I had allowed my sense of self to disintegraste to the point that I felt exposed as a total fraud and I felt the unspoken judgement and derision of every passer by when walking down the street. It didnt matter what activity I tried. While I was engaged in doing it I felt the scorn of everyone, articulated as one voice inside of my head, criticising every movement every reaction every thought.
At the bottom of this spiral even the words of those who would reach out to me took on a malevolent sinister edge. I had truly gotten to the point where I had thought that I was locked out of human affection, that the only purpose left for me was to suffer and 'burn' like some "Strawman"
My problems stemmed from drug induced psychosis. I can only say I feel blessed that my feelings of worthlessness were not terminal.
Its funny how all the cliches are proven true though. You can't put an old head on young shoulders and when a pupil is ready, a teacher appears. This is probably all trite and self serving, though I did think through what my Mum and Dad might go through when I readied myself to end it all, and I just hoped that they would understand that it was not about them, that it had just become too much to be me.
18 Jun 08
Originally posted by kmax87kmax: I was listening to Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush's duet "Don't give up".
I can only hope with time that you feel less of the loss and more of the life and joy that was your son.
From my own experience of an attempted suicide in 1988 all I can say that it was more about him than anyone else. Its almost comforting to have a logical peg to pin guilt and apportion blame, but the sad truth is that while the letter probably did excas ...[text shortened]... would understand that it was not about them, that it had just become too much to be me.
That would make me want to eat a bullet, too.
18 Jun 08
Originally posted by AThousandYounga child also needs to eat. so if i leave him with my wife while i get the groceries or with his grandmother it won't scar him. walking him around with a leash might. i won't leave him/her alone in the hotel room like the mccanns did so they could enjoy a dinner alone from the brats. if i cannot find someone to take care of my child, i will take him along with me and sacrifice my comfort to watch over him.
Children, especially those full of energy, need attention and should not have their movements restricted.
That's why you leave them home when you go to the mall? I'm having trouble here.
let's say i admit that a stroller or a baby pen for toddlers would be no different than a leash, while at home. but having a child on a leash means he is leash length out of your reach and could punch a dog that would eat him before you make the 2 steps to help him or put his hand into a working fan. and this leash might also be intended for boisterous children, maybe 10 years old even. that would be barbaric. better impose rules and boundaries than tie your child. "be nice or next time i go to the mall you will be left with the old lady that watches soaps and smell like moldy cabbage soup" would be more helpful than "let's see you get into trouble now, when you are tied"
18 Jun 08
1 edit
Originally posted by kmax87Thanks for this. There is a lot in it that provides a measure of real comfort to me. I recognize the truth of what you are saying -- and again I return to what has helped me most: studying the philosophy of Buddhism. I get down to just a few simple tasks that really have helped me. I don't believe everything I think or mistake it for reality -- I know I can let my emotions run away with me and that it is good then to let them wash over and through me but not to act them out. I can be aware of what is really going on and face it, good or bad --
I can only hope with time that you feel less of the loss and more of the life and joy that was your son.
From my own experience of an attempted suicide in 1988 all I can say that it was more about him than anyone else. Its almost comforting to have a logical peg to pin guilt and apportion blame, but the sad truth is that while the letter probably did excas would understand that it was not about them, that it had just become too much to be me.
Yes, I too know in my rational mind that it was about him -- it was his illness and also his choice to stop taking the meds that kept him stable.
But the emotional process of grief will have its way and must run its course. So one must go on with this, not in spite of it.
I had spent the previous 15 years successfully helping my boy to stay alive and resist his long flirtation with death. But kids grow up and they go out on their own and then tell you only what they want you to know.
They have that right.
The girl didn't cause all this, but she surely didn't help. People do these things to one another, even though they ought to know better.
So that leads me to the other thing Buddhist philosophy is teaching me: the importance of forgiveness and compassion.
I try not to assign blame, or if I feel that I am doing it, I try hard to force myself into the mode of forgiving myself and all the others who may have failed to help my boy stay alive. And I forgive him for his fatal misjudgment and have the utmost compassion for the suffering he felt -- like the suffering you felt.
I am truly glad you are still alive. Your message tells me that the world is a better place and will be made even more so by the fact you are still among us.
18 Jun 08
Originally posted by ScriabinFor a big shot corporate lawyer who pals around with powerful people in the White House, you're too good for this world.
Thanks for this. There is a lot in it that provides a measure of real comfort to me. I recognize the truth of what you are saying -- and again I return to what has helped me most: studying the philosophy of Buddhism. I get down to just a few simple tasks that really have helped me. I don't believe everything I think or mistake it for reality -- I know I c ...[text shortened]... the world is a better place and will be made even more so by the fact you are still among us.
BTW, what does any of your posts here have to do with the subject of the thread?
18 Jun 08
2 edits
Originally posted by no1marauderI am not a corporate lawyer.
For a big shot corporate lawyer who pals around with powerful people in the White House, you're too good for this world.
BTW, what does any of your posts here have to do with the subject of the thread?
And this is the last time I feel I need to explain to you why I won't consider addressing you further. I see no useful purpose served in doing so.
Why not try your luck with someone else?
19 Jun 08
Originally posted by ScriabinThank you very much for that thought. Your words gave me comfort too. I now have a son who is 4 and already we are experiencing the pangs of watching him grow and wondering about the job we as parents are doing in raising him. How will we react if one day he looks like going off the rails.
I am truly glad you are still alive. Your message tells me that the world is a better place and will be made even more so by the fact you are still among us.
I feel grateful that he is a "normal" boisterous young kid, that is well liked even though a tad loud at times. The thing that worries me is not that we worry, but that we may be worrying too much. It seems an international obsession to now be overwrought by every personality trait we model for our little darlings. There is nothing more sobering than to hear your child act out a scolding you have just given them onto their favorite toy to realize that nothing you do escapes them.
It seems my parents were never that concerned about their actions, and my grandparents definitely not.