Cloned meat

Originally posted by Wajoma
You may 'feel' you're qualified to get between a willing buyer and a willing seller and interfering with that transaction but you are woefully unqualified to use the word 'free'.

I think it's entirely appropriate and legitimate for individuals in a society to act collectively to protect themselves from threats such as a food safety and health ideology like yours. You are as free as anyone else to use democratic mechanisms to advocate and gain support for what you wish.

Originally posted by FMF
I think it's entirely appropriate and legitimate for individuals in a society to act collectively to protect themselves from threats such as a food safety and health ideology like yours. You are as free as anyone else to use democratic mechanisms to advocate and gain support for what you wish.

Like I said, doesn't understand 'free' and right on cue goes and puts his foot right in his mouth.

Too easy.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Like I said, doesn't understand 'free' and right on cue goes and puts his foot right in his mouth.

Too easy.

People are free to protect themselves from your ideology, Wajoma. If you have some alternative to democracy you'd like to propose, then go ahead and subject it to the scrutiny of the forum.

Originally posted by FMF
People are free to protect themselves from your ideology, Wajoma. If you have some alternative to democracy you'd like to propose, then go ahead and subject it to the scrutiny of the forum.

See how you'd love to twist that word 'free', to make it yours. Can't do it. You don't need to protect yourself from those that want nothing from you. What you want is protection of your claim on their lives.

News for FMF: it's a bogus claim.

So, not sure how to spell this out any more clearly for you:

Freedom does not equal 6 people telling 5 people what to do.
Freedom does not equal 99 people telling 1 person what to do.

It's a full time job to stop control freaks trying to dirty the word up with their foul "You don't know how to run your life" philosophy, sheesh.

Originally posted by Wajoma
See how you'd love to twist that word 'free', to make it yours. Can't do it. You don't need to protect yourself from those that want nothing from you. What you want is protection of your claim on their lives.

News for FMF: it's a bogus claim.

So, not sure how to spell this out any more clearly for you:

Freedom does not equal 6 people telling 5 peop the word up with their foul "You don't know how to run your life" philosophy, sheesh.

The question you are dodging - indeed, you have been dodging it for months, and probably ever since you started posting here - is this: If you have some alternative to democracy you'd like to propose, then why not go ahead and subject it to the scrutiny of the forum?

Originally posted by FMF
The question are dodging - indeed, you have been dodging it for months, and probably ever since you started posting here - is this: If you have some alternative to democracy you'd like to propose, then why not go ahead and subject it to the scrutiny of the forum?

So you've read every post I've ever made here? That's very flattering. I have posted what is needed often enough, I do not know how to get there, how not to get there is through capitulation but that idea is wasted on you.

What is needed is a binding constitution limiting the power of gummint and the whim of the mob, the US almost had it, and it is what made the US, sadly they stray further from those ideals almost daily.

Originally posted by Wajoma
So you've read every post I've ever made here? That's very flattering. I have posted what is needed often enough, I do not know how to get there, how not to get there is through capitulation but that idea is wasted on you.

What is needed is a binding constitution limiting the power of gummint and the whim of the mob, the US almost had it, and it is what made the US, sadly they stray further from those ideals almost daily.

So you have nothing specific to propose. Just a kind of vague rhetoric.

You envisage "one person" being able to veto the implementation of a food safety standards that the other "99 persons" want to implement to protect themselves? The 99 can do what they want but the 1, as you say, "...should be free to produce poisonous food as long as [he] doesn't claim it's not poison and don't say it is food"?

You want to be able to impose your label-free, stock-market driven safety standards system on the other 99? And to do it without using a democratic mechanism?

I don't see why you should be permitted to. After all you are free to not read labels, free to ignore standards, and free to eat whatever you want.

Originally posted by FMF
So you have nothing specific to propose. Just a kind of vague rhetoric.

You envisage "one person" being able to veto the implementation of a food safety standards that the other "99 persons" want to implement to protect themselves? The 99 can do what they want but the 1, as you say, "...should be free to produce poisonous food as long as [he] doesn't claim i ...[text shortened]... free to not read labels, free to ignore standards, and free to eat whatever you want.

And your 'specific' proposal is "Let's see what's fashionable" rather than let's see what is right or what is wrong.

I don't want to impose anything. Those 99 are free not to partake in the stock market they are free to produce food with as many labels as they like. No matter how you'd like to turn that around you'll always come up short.

It is you that wants to impose.

It is you that does not believe the next fellow should be free.

It is you that would like to exert control on others lives.

If it were just vague rhetoric I doubt it would get such a rise out of you, but there's some truth in there FMF and that's what irks.

So the important lessons for you tonight:

I am the owner of my life, you do not have a superior claim on it.
Democracy does not equal freedom.

All your self righteousness about standing up for this that or the other, good for you, just don't make out it's got anything to do with people being free.

Originally posted by Wajoma
If it were just vague rhetoric I doubt it would get such a rise out of you, but there's some truth in there FMF and that's what irks.

I am not irked. I just don't support your proposal for food safety. I think you should be free to eat what you want.

Originally posted by Wajoma
I am the owner of my life, you do not have a superior claim on it.

If I were saying that you HAVE to read the labels then perhaps I would be making a "claim" on your life. However I am not. I have said, repeatedly, you are free to not read labels, free to ignore standards, and free to eat whatever you want.

Originally posted by Wajoma
What is needed is a binding constitution limiting the power of gummint and the whim of the mob, the US almost had it, and it is what made the US, sadly they stray further from those ideals almost daily.

I really cant see how a binding constitution is any freer than democracy. Who gets to decide what goes into this binding constitution?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I really cant see how a binding constitution is any freer than democracy. Who gets to decide what goes into this binding constitution?

The elected representatives of the people do, of course.

And if there's the popular will, it can be changed by the elected representatives of the people. It just requires a bit more of a mandate than a normal statute.

That's what makes a Constitution so great... it's a binding set of principles, but it can be amended if need be.

Originally posted by sh76
The elected representatives of the people do, of course.

And if there's the popular will, it can be changed by the elected representatives of the people. It just requires a bit more of a mandate than a normal statute.

That's what makes a Constitution so great... it's a binding set of principles, but it can be amended if need be.

Apparently Wajoma seeks a 100% mandate.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Apparently Wajoma seeks a 100% mandate.

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose,
And nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free,
Feelin' good was easy, lord, when Wajoma sang the blues,
And buddy, that was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my er... busy b o'dee.

- with apologies to Janis & Bobby McGee

Originally posted by FMF
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose,
And nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free,
Feelin' good was easy, lord, when Wajoma sang the blues,
And buddy, that was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my er... busy b o'dee.

- with apologies to Janis & Bobby McGee

All we have to do now
Is take these lies and make them true somehow
All we have to see
Is that I don't belong to you
And you don't belong to me
Freedom

Heh. Sorry, had to do it.