21 Feb 11
Originally posted by Metal BrainTypical ignorance; the last time the US had a trade surplus was 1975. The deficit in 1980 was about $19 billion. http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/gands.txt
Only the second reason is true?
You are mistaken. Only the third is arguable.
We had a trade surplus back then. It is a fact. Blow the dust off of your history book and take a look.
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by no1marauderAre you blind?
Typical ignorance; the last time the US had a trade surplus was 1975. The deficit in 1980 was about $19 billion. http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/gands.txt
Your own link says exports are more than imports in 1980.
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by Metal BrainNo I'm not blind and you appear to be an idiot.
Are you blind?
Your own link says exports are more than imports in 1980.
The link gives Exports of goods and services as being $271,834 in millions or about $272 billion. It gives Imports of goods and services as $291,241 in millions of dollar or a little more than $291 billion. That's a trade deficit (not a surplus) of $19.407 billion.
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by AThousandYoungDo these people really expect an apocalyptic scenario where the prized commodities are bullets and canned goods? I doubt it.
Too abstract.
These people who are buying gold expect this nation's economy and/or government to collapse. They are planning to bunker down with physical goods that they can protect.
In that scenario, I'd buy cigarettes myself. Canned food. Liquor. Fuels. Weapons and bullets. They probably have that stuff too. But they want something more ...[text shortened]... n the government of course, so anything the government can control is out of the question.
Did Metal Brain ever get to say what would happen to prices in his currency during a period where the relative price of gold goes up more than 4 times the price of other goods?
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by PalynkaThere are also those who prey upon desperation. These people will buy gold jewelry from impoverished old widows at low prices. This is in good supply because of the recession. These are the guys on TV.
Do these people really expect an apocalyptic scenario where the prized commodities are bullets and canned goods? I doubt it.
Did Metal Brain ever get to say what would happen to prices in his currency during a period where the relative price of gold goes up more than 4 times the price of other goods?
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by PalynkaThen his gold reserves will quadruple in value...no?
Do these people really expect an apocalyptic scenario where the prized commodities are bullets and canned goods? I doubt it.
Did Metal Brain ever get to say what would happen to prices in his currency during a period where the relative price of gold goes up more than 4 times the price of other goods?
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by AThousandYoungHe's advocating having a currency backed by gold.
Then his gold reserves will quadruple in value...no?
A car costs 1000 gold coins. Suddenly, there is a crisis like the one just now and the price of gold goes up a lot in world markets. Would you expect the price of the car to remain at 1000 gold coins? Would you expect to cost more or less gold coins?
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by telerionThat is precisely the point. The government can't make more of it. It doesn't get consumed. It is a point of reference that is based in objective reality that cannot be taken away from the individual owner by the government or anyone else without direct force. It is not needed by anyone for anything, so nobody can appeal to need for resources in order to get it from you. It can be owned in a Property Rights sense; it allows one to amass great wealth while still being independent; still keeping it under one's direct physical and moral control.
Gold supply grows very little, and demand from productive sources is also very small.
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by PalynkaHow can the price of money go up?
He's advocating having a currency backed by gold.
A car costs 1000 gold coins. Suddenly, there is a crisis like the one just now and the price of gold goes up a lot in world markets. Would you expect the price of the car to remain at 1000 gold coins? Would you expect to cost more or less gold coins?
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by AThousandYoungIt is a point of reference highly susceptible to speculation.
That is precisely the point. The government can't make more of it. It doesn't get consumed. It is a point of reference that is based in objective reality that cannot be taken away from the individual owner by the government or anyone else without direct force. It is not needed by anyone for anything, so nobody can appeal to need for resources in o ...[text shortened]... hile still being independent; still keeping it under one's direct physical and moral control.
21 Feb 11
Originally posted by KazetNagorraNo, that means the price of the dollar went down, not that the price of gold went up - from this perspective.
By more people buying the thing backing up the currency.
Anyway, I'm not buying gold. I think these people are fools. But this is my understanding of the logic.
21 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThe closest we have to a price of money are interest rates (which is why interest rates are used for monetary policy), but that's not the issue here.
How can the price of money go up?
If the price of gold relative to cars goes up, that means deflation, i.e. cars are worth less units of money (like you say, the unit of account doesn't change but what it can buy will inevitably do). If wage contracts are rigid (which they are, try reducing nominal wages and see how easy it is) that means firms would be hit in such a depression with rising real wages on top of a depressed demand, which would leads to reducing the number of employees. In other words, an in-built mechanism to generate more unemployment during a crisis.
22 Feb 11
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoungYou're right.
Too abstract.
These people who are buying gold expect this nation's economy and/or government to collapse. They are planning to bunker down with physical goods that they can protect.
In that scenario, I'd buy cigarettes myself. Canned food. Liquor. Fuels. Weapons and bullets. They probably have that stuff too. But they want something more n the government of course, so anything the government can control is out of the question.
The thing I wonder with most of these gold bugs is do they actually have the physical gold in their possession or do they have some claims on gold through some firm? I guarantee if the apocalypse occurs tomorrow any claim to gold is going to be just as worthless as a Treasury or a stock.
And I wonder how this new gold economy is going to emerge when the world falls apart. I mean let's say during the apocalypse that I personally (having no stake in gold) lose my job and all of my financial wealth. My most immediate needs are going to be consumption goods like the ones you listed (no, I don't smoke). That's the thing I'm gonna barter for. I'm not going to be the least bit interested in some hunk shiny metal Bimetal Head has sitting in his safe.
Why not? Well, because in order for me to give up something valuable in such a dire circumstance, I'm going to need assurance that I can quickly convert that hunk of shiny metal back into something that I need when the time arises. I mean it's not like I can eat gold or drink gold or clothe myself in gold or build myself shelter with gold. Gold's only value in that circumstance is based solely on it being widely accepted for currency by others. But then that's exactly what fiat money is too (only fiat money typically has a lot of other advantages over gold as a means of exchange).
I just don't know why anyone would put a significant fraction of their life savings in a such a volatile asset with very few good underlying fundamentals.