Covid-19 Vaccine

@torunn said
Maybe, in the end - if there is an end to this virus - the result may be about the same for all, even if we do it different ways. So far we seem to manage fairly well despite unfortunate high death rates at first, but who can tell...?

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-herd-immunity-approach-to-fight-coronavirus-2020-5

"The scientist behind Sweden's no-lockdown strategy has suggested that the controversial approach might have been a mistake."

@handyandy said
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-herd-immunity-approach-to-fight-coronavirus-2020-5

"The scientist behind Sweden's no-lockdown strategy has suggested that the controversial approach might have been a mistake."

Andy, what can I say other than what I have mentioned in earlier posts. I follow Swedish media's daily reports on the situation here, and different experts maintain different opinions. The Swedish strategy, criticized and questioned, was according to Anders Tegnell, what they hoped to be a good way to try. He said it was a good strategy, but the problem they did not recognize then was our insufficient care for old and elderly people. The death rates among them were much too high, totally unacceptable, but apart from that we seem to be doing reasonably well so far. That's how we look at the situation here, but we don't know.

@torunn said
Maybe, in the end - if there is an end to this virus - the result may be about the same for all, even if we do it different ways. So far we seem to manage fairly well despite unfortunate high death rates at first, but who can tell...?

The experts wish they knew the answer to that, @Torunn.

But for now, the Swedish people paid an early price and they can now relax a bit.
It's like Karma... Yin-Yang. All's good.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

“Let the record show”

What “record” ?
We’re not in Court, this isn’t a trial.

@shavixmir said
If everyone stayed home for 2 months, the virus would have died out. It wouldn’t resurge (not from human to human contact anyway).

Yes - if the world had gone into lockdown as NZ did and at the same time it would be over.

NZ eliminated it - totally.

But we have to deal with it being brought in periodically and that will probably be our new normal.

@torunn said
Andy, what can I say other than what I have mentioned in earlier posts. I follow Swedish media's daily reports on the situation here, and different experts maintain different opinions. The Swedish strategy, criticized and questioned, was according to Anders Tegnell, what they hoped to be a good way to try. He said it was a good strategy, but the problem they did not recognize ...[text shortened]... eem to be doing reasonably well so far. That's how we look at the situation here, but we don't know.

The path to herd immunity was too costly.

@handyandy said
The path to herd immunity was too costly.

It was, and we don't know enough about herd immunity - if it can be achieved and for how long.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

It is illegal in the US to buy the Russian vaccine.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/08/29/us-sanctions-russian-research-institute-that-developed-covid-19-vaccine/

@handyandy said
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-herd-immunity-approach-to-fight-coronavirus-2020-5

"The scientist behind Sweden's no-lockdown strategy has suggested that the controversial approach might have been a mistake."

Sweden's strategy has been a success.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/sweden-close-victory-coronavirus-never-had-lockdown-mask-mandate/5723490

@torunn said
It was, and we don't know enough about herd immunity - if it can be achieved and for how long.

This may seem "insensitive" but on average how much do you think it saved Sweden in medical expense to let nature take its course?

What expense is it to care for elderly in nursing homes per individual per year?

In the US it cost about $100k per person per year. So Sweden saved about half a billion USD this year alone.

@joe-shmo said
This may seem "insensitive" but on average how much do you think it saved Sweden in medical expense to let nature take its course?

What expense is it to care for elderly in nursing homes per individual per year?

In the US it cost about $100k per person per year. So Sweden saved about half a billion USD this year alone.

I sincerely hope it was never a calculated matter of cost. The good thing this sad situation has brought forward is the need for better, more humane care homes. The insufficient care in itself certainly was a matter of price, but I think we simply underestimated the danger of this virus. There have been epidemics every year: Asiaten, Asiaten II, Victoria, Hong Kong etc and I think this new virus was not taken as seriously as it should have been.

We are not out of it yet - our strategy can still fail.

@joe-shmo said
This may seem "insensitive" but on average how much do you think it saved Sweden in medical expense to let nature take its course?

What expense is it to care for elderly in nursing homes per individual per year?

In the US it cost about $100k per person per year. So Sweden saved about half a billion USD this year alone.

Gee, think of all the money that could be saved if we took everybody out of cancer wards and put a bullet in their head.

I'm sure we'd "save" enough to give the wealthy another big tax cut.

@shavixmir said
Exactly.

And people seem to think the vaccine will solve everything within a month.

They’re in for a bloody great shock.
Any resemblance to normality won’t be felt until months after 60% of the population have been vaccinated. Maybe 70%.

At best, very best, you’re looking at August 2021 before the virus can be under control.
By vaccination.

If the whole world stayed home for 2 months, the virus would be under control by Christmas.

If the whole world stayed home for 2 months, half the people would be dead of starvation.

@divegeester said
And then another “wave” of infections by the following spring.

Whichever way one looks at it, the virus has to work it’s way through the population at some point.

True, but you can postpone that until the monoclonal antibodies treatments hit the clinics and doctors' offices (I'd estimate 2-4 more months).

Of course I agree that a harsh lockdown is overkill and counterproductive. But masking and avoiding large gatherings makes sense.

@joe-shmo said
This may seem "insensitive" but on average how much do you think it saved Sweden in medical expense to let nature take its course?

What expense is it to care for elderly in nursing homes per individual per year?

In the US it cost about $100k per person per year. So Sweden saved about half a billion USD this year alone.

If conservatives start throwing the elderly under the bus they will lose one of their prime voting demographics. Old people vote conservative.