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18 Oct 20
Again...
The cry: Infection numbers in the UK are out of control, way way way above last March in wave 1.
My initial response: last March we were doing 6,000 tests per day, now we are doing 250,000 tests per day.
Doesn’t anyone think that finding more cases is linked to doing more tests?
Hospital admissions and deaths are not scaling in relation to discovered cases ~ but we are shutting down the country as though they are!
Governments and people need to calm down, the fear is out of control.
18 Oct 20
@divegeester saidI don’t know what you’re talking about.
I’m sure there are national (is ok to use that word?) differences and Holland is quite different in cultural attitudes to much of Europe.
You will have seen me having a bit of go at the restrictions in a few threads over the last few weeks. I’m not a covid denier by any means but facts are facts ~ we are heading into a total poo-storm of human suffering, a pandemic of ...[text shortened]... 9 ... without resorting to manufactured outrage and accusations of evil incarnate walking the earth?
The Netherlands, Britain, Germany, France, Italy... all have right-wing (conservative) governments.
Very few left-wing governments out there.
And most governments (left or right) are issueing similar (although there are varients) methods of coping with the pandemic.
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18 Oct 20
@shavixmir saidI’m talking about (typically) left wing people vs (typically) right wing people disagreeing, such as in here for example.
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
The Netherlands, Britain, Germany, France, Italy... all have right-wing (conservative) governments.
Very few left-wing governments out there.
And most governments (left or right) are issueing similar (although there are varients) methods of coping with the pandemic.
I’m aware of that the governments are right wing, I do live in the UK 🙂
@divegeester saidThere is no fear.
Again...
The cry: Infection numbers in the UK are out of control, way way way above last March in wave 1.
My initial response: last March we were doing 6,000 tests per day, now we are doing 250,000 tests per day.
Doesn’t anyone think that finding more cases is linked to doing more tests?
Hospital admissions and deaths are not scaling in relation to discovere ...[text shortened]... ountry as though they are!
Governments and people need to calm down, the fear is out of control.
What the government, experts and health officials see are the hospitals filling up and the capacity to cope with non-corona related issues dropping. Hence the measures needed to slow down the rate of infection.
I brought up the issue of more testing leading to higher numbers of infections at work last week.
It’s not properly measurable. Hence it’s not useful (say data analysts; not me).
Neither is death-rate of any real interest (say government experts). The measure of what needs to be done isn’t even connected to the R-rate; that’s used as an indication on whether things are “currently” getting better or worse. The only true measure of which escalation is needed is hospital admittance and hospital turnover. And the percentage of cases using IC beds.
Amongst all the drama and whining, what truly drives current policies are hard facts on hospital beds.
Too many covid patients in hospital? People have to wait longer for regular operations, etc. Even cancer patients.
And it’s this fact which drive governments’ responses. Not fear. Not socialism. Not oppression.
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@shavixmir saidWhat!
There is no fear.
People I see everyone day are living in total fear of something that won’t make 90% of them even feel ill.
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18 Oct 20
@shavixmir saidI’m aware of this and I support the need fo slow the infection. I do not support the intent to do this by crippling the economy and causing unilateral misery and suffering.
What the government, experts and health officials see are the hospitals filling up and the capacity to cope with non-corona related issues dropping. Hence the measures needed to slow down the rate of infection.
Did you not read my other post Shav?
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@shavixmir saidNumber of tests per day in uk = 250,000
I brought up the issue of more testing leading to higher numbers of infections at work last week.
It’s not properly measurable. Hence it’s not useful (say data analysts; not me).
Number last March = 6,000
Assumption the virus is more widespread
But the numbers of hospitalisations do not reflect the increased case numbers.
We are making economic decisions based on “cases”
It’s a fuk up.
Edit: what isn’t measurable according to the analysts at your work?
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18 Oct 20
@shavixmir saidAmen, I totally agree with this.
Neither is death-rate of any real interest (say government experts). The measure of what needs to be done isn’t even connected to the R-rate; that’s used as an indication on whether things are “currently” getting better or worse. The only true measure of which escalation is needed is hospital admittance and hospital turnover. And the percentage of cases using IC beds.
Amon ...[text shortened]... patients in hospital? People have to wait longer for regular operations, etc. Even cancer patients.
So why all the bollox about “cases” all the frigging time?
Why all the rhetoric in the government, the media and in here (I asked No1 to explain two days ago) of the use of “DEADLY DISEASE”?
It drives fear, it drives the wrong thinking, it is driving populations to extreme fear. I see it in the streets and shops every day.
18 Oct 20
@divegeester saidBasically the situation in March and April, compared to now.
Number of tests per day in uk = 250,000
Number last March = 6,000
Assumption the virus is more widespread
But the numbers of hospitalisations do not reflect the increased case numbers.
We are making economic decisions based on “cases”
It’s a fuk up.
Edit: what isn’t measurable according to the analysts at your work?
All that can be drawn is a vague number based on the axioma that first there were x amount of tests with Y results and now there are M amount of tests with N results and then compare the two.
However, there are so many more differentials that, to get anywhere near a proper comparison, that it’s pointless: how many people infected without being tested, etc.
These are my words. They made it way more complicated.
And don’t forget, what these analysts do isn’t achieving “rough definitions”. Whole sectors of the economy can be shut down by the data they produce. So, unless they’re sure, they’re not gonna do it.
18 Oct 20
@divegeester saidIt’s probably two-fold:
Amen, I totally agree with this.
So why all the bollox about “cases” all the frigging time?
Why all the rhetoric in the government, the media and in here (I asked No1 to explain two days ago) of the use of “DEADLY DISEASE”?
It drives fear, it drives the wrong thinking, it is driving populations to extreme fear. I see it in the streets and shops every day.
- attempting to get people to stick to the rules (not sure fear is a good motivator, but the Dutch have shot for personal responsebility... and that’s not very effective either).
- making it easier to understand.
It’s easier to communicate to the masses in generalisations which are easily understandable: “Killer disease, get the cases down.”
Or: “We’re screwed until 70% of the population have caught the disease. So to keep the healthcare system functioning, we have to spread the cases over a 1,5 year period, keeping the economy going and attempting to lessen the 18 month time span with a vaccine. If we don’t keep healthcare functioning the economy will take a massive hit anyway, etc.”
It just doesn’t sell as well.
So yes. When Boris was shot down about herd immunity, it wasn’t because he was wrong, it was because without slowing the spread Britain would have collapsed.
@vivify - Ron Paul, a Republican, was very popular with Democrats, far more than with Republicans.
Ron Paul is a Libertarian, too.
Ron Paul, byname of Ronald Ernest Paul, (born August 20, 1935, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.), American politician, who served as a Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives (1976–77, 1979–85, 1997–2013) and who unsuccessfully ran as the 1988 Libertarian presidential candidate. He later sought the Republican nomination for president in 2008 and 2012.
But the Repubs had more money to support his campaign.
Bill Weld is another, same situation.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ron-Paul
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18 Oct 20
@divegeester saideven when we have a socialist government in the uk the civil service is predominently right wing so are the royal family.
I’m talking about (typically) left wing people vs (typically) right wing people disagreeing, such as in here for example.
I’m aware of that the governments are right wing, I do live in the UK 🙂
18 Oct 20
@metal-brain saidBy facts you mean the deranged ramblings of scumbag baby killing anti Vaxxers who are carrying out the Kremlin’s plan to damage the economies and political stability of the western democracies who sanction them every time they commit an extra judicial murder or attempted murder?
Not true.
Dems are particularly dogmatic when confronted with facts and we would not have heard of the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" if there was any truth to what you say.
18 Oct 20
@divegeester saidRight wingers want people to work and die so they can profit while simultaneously removing competition
I’ve been taking stock of left and right and support for covid restrictions. It seems of me that left wing orientated people are more frequently aligned to tougher covid restrictions and I am wondering why this might be.
Is it because the socialist mindset is more amenable to government intervention rules, especially rules which level-set society? I don’t know I’m just posing a question.
18 Oct 20
@athousandyoung saidC'mon, dude. Stop acting the spambot.
Right wingers want people to work and die so they can profit while simultaneously removing competition