@joe-shmo said"All time"? I only went back as far as the 1900s, which is the most documented century of all time; at least until the 2000s are done.
You are adding parameters. Now you want to compare human civilizations acceptance of female nudity across all time?
But you do see my point, right? It's not just a single nation; most nations have relaxed their restrictions on how covered up women should be as women gained rights in the those nations.
So it's not just a "single" point, as you alleged earlier. There's ample evidence of the correlation between how much skin women can show and how free they are, in many countries; just look at their histories.
That's in addition to some of the most feminist nations in the world also being among the most lax on nudity.
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25 Jun 21
@vivify saidI don't think your hypothesis holds. Go back in time you will find many "naked" cultures that are distinctly un-feminist.
"All time"? I only went back as far as the 1900s, which is the most documented century of all time; at least until the 2000s are done.
But you do see my point, right? It's not just a single nation; most nations have relaxed their restrictions on how covered up women should be as women gain rights in the those nations.
So it's not just a "single" point, as you alleged ...[text shortened]... addition to some of the most feminist nations in the world also being among the most lax on nudity.
25 Jun 21
@joe-shmo saidI already told you I wasn't including "all time" (your phrase). Obviously, Neanderthal times probably weren't particularly feminist.
I don't think your hypothesis holds. Go back in time you will find many "naked" cultures that are distinctly un-feminist.
I'm talking about developed nations, not tribal ones.
25 Jun 21
@vivify saidOther than Scandinavian and other European nations, which countries are you talking about?
I already told you I wasn't including "all time" (your phrase). Obviously, Neanderthal times probably weren't particularly feminist.
I'm talking about developed nations, not tribal ones.
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@vivify saidYou don't have to go back that far. Ancient Greece?
I already told you I wasn't including "all time" (your phrase). Obviously, Neanderthal times probably weren't particularly feminist.
I'm talking about developed nations, not tribal ones.
Here...knock yourself out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_nudity
27 Jun 21
It should be pointed out that even feminists see a correlation with how much of their body can exposed and freedom, especially with the "Top free" movement.
Just last year, a group of women tried to bring a case before the Supreme court (stemming from a New Hampshire ruling) arguing that banning women from being topless in places where it's okay for men violates the Constitution. SCOTUS refused to hear the case.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/23/topless-bans-free-the-nipple-laws-female-bodies-sex-objects-utah
This article argues that topless bans are another way objectifying women as sex objects.
There's definitely a case for the idea that how much skin women can show correlates with how free women are in that society.
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27 Jun 21
@vivify saidI'm all for it. Most people ( women or men ) like to look at titties. The only problem is the women you want to see topless won't be, and the ones you really don't want to see will...
It should be pointed out that even feminists see a correlation with how much of their body can exposed and freedom, especially with the "Top free" movement.
Just last year, a group of women tried to bring a case before the Supreme court (stemming from a New Hampshire ruling) arguing that banning women from being topless in places where it's okay for men violates the Const ...[text shortened]... e for the idea that how much skin women can show correlates with how free women are in that society.
The post that was quoted here has been removedLots of things are true that don't have formal studies done.
As I said, it seems a plausible starting hypothesis.
Also, Ms. Feminist, can you possibly think of a reason why no studies linking societal norms of female dress codes with sexual violence have been done, or had their results released?
I think you're in this just to piss in vivify's Cheerios.
27 Jun 21
@vivify saidVery interesting concept. If only we could get figures per capita of assaults (I don't expect anyone to have them) in say the UK against Saudi and say Germany.
I have a theory that the more nude a woman is allowed to be in public, the more free she is in that society.
For example: the societies most repressive and abusive toward women (including sexual assualt) seem to be those where they are required to be fully covered, including her face, like some Muslim nations.
Conversely, nations where women are allowed to show a lot of ...[text shortened]... my theory applies where female nudity is not really a "need".
Is this a generally accurate idea?
Actually I bet the authorities do have these and wouldn't release such political dynamite?
28 Jun 21
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@medullah saidThe OP isn't specifically about assault; it's about how women are treated in general, sexual assault included.
If only we could get figures per capita of assaults
In other words, how nude women can be in public seems to be an indicator of how women in that society are treated. This includes how safe women feel, how free from sexism and misogyny they are, how equally they're treated, etc. Sexual assault is just one of those factors.
28 Jun 21
The post that was quoted here has been removedWould you not say that women in Scandanavia are more free than women in Iran?
And that the women in Scandanavia are more lax about public nudity?
I don’t think freedom is about (sexual) abuse, but more of a feeling of being relaxed. Certainly with one’s body.
As I’ve pointed out, public nudity (beaches, saunas, etc. ) isn’t about sexuality.
And sexual abuse isn’t about sexuality either, that’s about power.