18 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeCrystal, thanks. It would be nice if you would state your position right off the bat.
Ivanhoe: "No, we also have to deal with the leaders elected by the Israeli voters, same as we have to accept the democratically and freely chosen Palestinian leaders."
I think this is a perfectly clear stance. Crystalclear.
18 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeHere you state that you have a problem with Hamas being elected.
There are two slight problems though. In its charter Hamas calls for Israel's destruction, not very democratic, and Hamas is considered to be a terrorist organisation which has attacked Israel many times.
18 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeHere you say that you are okay with whomever the Palestinians elect.
No, we also have to deal with the leaders elected by the Israeli voters, same as we have to accept the democratically and freely chosen Palestinian leaders.
That is why I called you a chameleon. Maybe it's not as crystal clear as we thought.
18 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by CliffLandinYou interprete my stances in such a way you want them to be. My stance is perfectly clear.
Here you say that you are okay with whomever the Palestinians elect.
That is why I called you a chameleon. Maybe it's not as crystal clear as we thought.
If you interprete the following: "No, we also have to deal with the leaders elected by the Israeli voters, same as we have to accept the democratically and freely chosen Palestinian leaders." as "Here you say that you are okay with whomever the Palestinians elect." , I have to object. It is not the same. Sorry.
18 Dec 05
Originally posted by CliffLandinMy position did not change at all, therefore you cannot call me a chameleon. You should in all fairness consider the possibility you didn't fully grasp my position at first sight.
Here you say that you are okay with whomever the Palestinians elect.
That is why I called you a chameleon. Maybe it's not as crystal clear as we thought.
18 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe US and EU's commitment to "democracy" seemingly does not apply when people they don't like get elected. These idiotic-type statements are great campaign grist for Hamas; free people don't like being dictated to.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FCB63EEA-DDF7-4E6D-989D-AC038D2B7A7C.htm
The European Union has joined the United States in threats to withhold aid if Hamas participates in a Palestinian government.
Javier Solana, the EU foreign policy chief, has said tens of millions of dollars of aid to the Palestinian Authority could be halted if the ...[text shortened]... e EU funding.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FCB63EEA-DDF7-4E6D-989D-AC038D2B7A7C.htm
18 Dec 05
Originally posted by CliffLandinAnd vice versa, don't forget that, its not ALL one-sided. Remember
Does it suprise you that Hamas won? Basically, the Israelis said "If you elect these guys we are gonna kick your ass!" In most cases when someone tells someone else to do something or else, that person is going to do exactly what you don't want them to do. Especially when the person telling you what to do has been killing your people for 50 years.
who attacked whom in 1948. BTW I am not Jewish, I have friends on
both sides of the fence.
18 Dec 05
Originally posted by sonhouseYou really should actually study the history of the creation of Israel before you make statements like "who attacked whom in 1948". The simple "history" that is spoon fed the people in the West and US ignores the real fact which is that an aggressive minority seized control of most of Palestine through force and intimidation of the majority. Your "friends" on the Arab side, if they exist, would have surely informed you of that.
And vice versa, don't forget that, its not ALL one-sided. Remember
who attacked whom in 1948. BTW I am not Jewish, I have friends on
both sides of the fence.
18 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThis is your standard approach. You post a number of cut and paste statements for one side of an arguement and when it is turned around on you, you claim to have never been espousing the things that you post.
My position did not change at all, therefore you cannot call me a chameleon. You should in all fairness consider the possibility you didn't fully grasp my position at first sight.
I fully understand your methods even if you don't.
