07 Jul 06
Originally posted by Bosse de Nagehmmm .... BdN a monarchist? .... scratched? ....
Fait accompli, case closed! The system works like a charm.
http://kenconklin.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Overview_of_the_Sovereignty_Issue_for_Newcomers
"Kanaka maoli have gone through more than 220 years of terrible devastation at the hands of outsiders. Their population was reduced by over 90% through diseases brought by foreigners and also because of poverty resulting from major social and economic changes. By the time of the overthrow, 60% of the population had no kanaka maoli blood; about half of the citizens of the Kingdom had no kanaka maoli blood; most of the elected legislators and appointed government officials had no kanaka maoli blood. A revolution of sorts took place in 1887, in which citizens and local residents who were disgusted by King Kalakaua's mismanagement, and armed members of a political party favoring annexation to the United States, forced the king to accept a new constitution limiting the powers of the monarch. This new "Bayonet Constitution" was very unpopular among the kanaka maoli, who saw their political power slipping away. After Kalakaua died and his sister became queen, she tried to unilaterally proclaim a new constitution which would have undone the revolution of 1887 and restored strong powers to the monarchy. The queen was clearly acting on behalf of her kanaka maoli people, at the expense of the 60% who were non-kanaka maoli. A group of citizens and residents, including 1500 armed members of the Honolulu Rifles, took to the streets, overthrew the queen, and set up a provisional government which later evolved into the Republic of Hawai'i. During this revolution about 150 U.S. troops were landed from a ship in the harbor. Their brief presence, although technically a neutral force to help keep order in the streets, added ten per cent to the forces of the internal revolution and may have helped intimidate the queen into surrendering "temporarily." In the 107 years since the overthrow, the economic and political standing of kanaka maoli continued to decline further, and only within the past two or three decades have kanaka maoli begun a strong cultural and political renaissance.
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07 Jul 06
Originally posted by zeeblebotThat's me, a royalist through and through.
hmmm .... BdN a monarchist? .... scratched? ....
What's interesting about all this stuff is the timing of it. In 1895 the Jameson Raid was a similar attempt to overthrow the Transvaal government, for similar reasons (foreigners unhappy with their treatment called for the British Empire to take over), although the Raid failed, leading to a war. The crimes of the times...
07 Jul 06
nasty little democracists popping up all over ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jameson_Raid
"With approximately 30,000 white male Boer voters and potentially 60,000 (white male) Uitlander ones, the Boer government had passed laws to restrict their enfranchisement. This had given rise to considerable discontent amongst the Uitlanders and preparations were made by some to overthrow the Boer government. The objective of the raid was to reach Johannesburg and support the uprising which would take place at the same time. The raid was planned by Cecil Rhodes in mid-1895 but it soon became mired in delays."
07 Jul 06
Originally posted by zeeblebotNice spin, z--perhaps the various conquests of tribes, kingdoms etc by colonial powers should be celebrated as advancing the spread of democracy! (Although after the Boer War democracy in South Africa was restricted to Whites, in order to keep the defeated Boers happy).
nasty little democracists popping up all over ...
07 Jul 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageJudging historic facts is normally pointless. There is never a real basis of reference for comparision, only speculation.
Nice spin, z--perhaps the various conquests of tribes, kingdoms etc by colonial powers should be celebrated as advancing the spread of democracy! (Although after the Boer War democracy in South Africa was restricted to Whites, in order to keep the defeated Boers happy).
07 Jul 06
Originally posted by PalynkaTrue enough, but that's not going to stop people from celebrating or decrying historical events, and we can always keep an eye on what today's version of yesterday's news conceals, glosses over, or distorts. At the very least the sort of simplified story that is used as propaganda today (glorious ancestral achievements / legacy of heroic resistance etc) can be shown to be more complex than it is purported to be.
Judging historic facts is normally pointless. There is never a real basis of reference for comparision, only speculation.
07 Jul 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageAgreed. It was just the hint of spite about those 'colonial powers' that I felt in your post that made me comment. I am as much against those who praise the 'benefits' of colonialism as I am against those who judge its darker side.
True enough, but that's not going to stop people from celebrating or decrying historical events, and we can always keep an eye on what today's version of yesterday's news conceals, glosses over, or distorts. At the very least the sort of simplified story that is used as propaganda today (glorious ancestral achievements / legacy of heroic resistance etc) can be shown to be more complex than it is purported to be.
Acknowledgement is not judgement.
Edit - Actually, I'm a bit more against those that praise supposed benefits. So maybe I'm full of crap.