24 Mar 17
Originally posted by SleepyguyDims will never work with Trump.
Well, except that Trump is not a conservative. What this may lead to is Trump, the RINO's, and the Democrats starting to work together and freezing out the conservatives, in other words the beginning of the end of meaningful influence for conservatives in the US, or in other other words, why we really needed Cruz to win the election.
NEVER!
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by SleepyguySo a bill that repeals all the ACA taxes, winds up with Medicaid as a block grant program and kills the essential benefits packages can't pass right wing muster.
I'll be surprised if the conservatives fold. They've been promising their voters they were going to repeal this thing a lot longer than Trump has, and they don't view this as a true repeal. I think it's more likely that Ryan pulls the bill. Ideologues for the win!
What possibly could?
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by no1marauderA bill the lowers the cost of healthcare insurance.
So a bill that repeals all the ACA taxes, winds up with Medicaid as a block grant program and kills the essential benefits packages can't pass right wing muster.
What possibly could?
25 Mar 17
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderActually, last I read (and admit to only skimming) the EHB's were not going to removed by this bill, and that was a major sticking point. Ryan's position was that the regulations requiring the EHB's could not be removed through the reconciliation process in the Senate, and so his bill left them in place. There was some last minute effort by Mike Lee to get the Senate Parliamentarian to say that those regs could indeed be removed through reconciliation, but it seemed iffy to me, and likely would have ended up in the courts. It also didn't help that conservatives were frozen out at the beginning, the bill was rammed through three committees without amendments allowed. The real problem is that RYNO's don't want to do the work to get everyone in the room and actually do the work to get consensus instead of just trying to cram a shrink wrapped POS through the process. He got what he deserved IMO, but I'm not happy about this result. For the record I think they should have voted to pass it. It's not like it was going to be the final product. They should have kicked it to the Senate to see what they could do with it, and play hardball when it came back through.
So a bill that repeals all the ACA taxes, winds up with Medicaid as a block grant program and kills the essential benefits packages can't pass right wing muster.
What possibly could?
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by SleepyguyI'm sure the Democrats would be happy to expand Obamacare, but why would the GOP in Congress vote for any such proposal?
You're probably right, but they should try. He adheres to no ideology, principles, or even reality. Who knows what they might get him to do.
25 Mar 17
1 edit
Originally posted by KazetNagorraDesperation perhaps? The pressure is only going to increase, and Trump can't just let it go. Not only did he promise to repeal it, but that everyone would be covered, and it was all just going to be super. Ryan and co don't don't care about a true repeal, as long as they can just spin it as repeal, even while leaving a different entitlement in place. Eventually I expect everyone will realize they can all satisfy their statist desires by working together in the middle and ignoring the far right (and far left). And Trump will be able to say "See? I told you I bring people together. Love me!"
I'm sure the Democrats would be happy to expand Obamacare, but why would the GOP in Congress vote for any such proposal?
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by SleepyguyI think Ryan was right - the essential benefits provision could not be passed in reconciliation - but other parts of the bill are inappropriate for reconciliation, too.
Actually, last I read (and admit to only skimming) the EHB's were not going to removed by this bill, and that was a major sticking point. Ryan's position was that the regulations requiring the EHB's could not be removed through the reconciliation process in the Senate, and so his bill left them in place. There was some last minute effort by Mike Lee to get ...[text shortened]... t to the Senate to see what they could do with it, and play hardball when it came back through.
I'm not 100% sure of where the negotiations were but Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen of New Jersey, chair of the House Appropriations Committee, used the removal of the mandates to justify his announced "no" vote:
"In addition to the loss of Medicaid coverage for so many people in my Medicaid-dependent state, the denial of essential health benefits in the individual market raise serious coverage and cost issues," Frelinghuysen went on.
http://www.businessinsider.com/house-appropriations-chair-comes-out-against-trumpcare-2017-3
I agree with your bottom line assessment and remain puzzled by the Freedom Caucus action. I've searching for an appropriate analogy and thought of left Democrats voting against the ACA because it didn't amount to a full single payer system (as Dennis Kucinich almost did), but even that isn't quite right - the ACA was voted on more than a year after Obama was in office, not the first major vote on a President's pushed legislation. It's more like if left Democrats voted against Obama's first stimulus package because it didn't nationalize banking.
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by KazetNagorraThe makeup of the House is 237 Republicans and 193 Democrats (5 seats are vacant). All are up for re-election in 2018. If even 10% of House Republicans could be swung to support some type of compromise ACA repair for political survival reasons, it could pass.
I'm sure the Democrats would be happy to expand Obamacare, but why would the GOP in Congress vote for any such proposal?
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by no1marauderOriginally posted by no1marauder
I think Ryan was right - the essential benefits provision could not be passed in reconciliation - but other parts of the bill are inappropriate for reconciliation, too.
I'm not 100% sure of where the negotiations were but Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen of New Jersey, chair of the House Appropriations Committee, used the removal of the mandates to justify h ...[text shortened]... t Democrats voted against Obama's first stimulus package because it didn't nationalize banking.
I think Ryan was right - the essential benefits provision could not be passed in reconciliation - but other parts of the bill are inappropriate for reconciliation, too.
I think Lee's thinking was that if the Parliamentarian ruled against the EHB's being addressed in reconciliation (which is unclear) they would be able tp bring in Pence to overrule her and just proceed. A highly dubious strategy IMO.
...but even that isn't quite right - the ACA was voted on more than a year after Obama was in office, not the first major vote on a President's pushed legislation.
And IMO that speaks to Ryan's laziness. Whatever objections that might be raised about the process Dems used to cram through the ACA, they spent a lot of time with it. They voted down all or most of the amendments the GOP wanted, but they held the votes and had debate in the committees. They even spent time courting the moderate GOP senators like Snowe etc. If Ryan doesn't have the stomach for the same kind of effort then he should step down and let someone else take a swing. I'm not sure who would want the job though. Maybe Rand! Heh.
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by SleepyguyI said that in November: http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/dems-should-start-sucking-up-to-trump.170734
You're probably right, but they should try. He adheres to no ideology, principles, or even reality. Who knows what they might get him to do.
My predictive powers weren't as good as I thought; I really thought the Congress would do a full repeal.
25 Mar 17
Originally posted by no1marauderIndeed you did.
I said that in November: http://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/dems-should-start-sucking-up-to-trump.170734
My predictive powers weren't as good as I thought; I really thought the Congress would do a full repeal.
Maybe Rand/Lee & the Freedom Caucus boys will be able to convince Trump to repeal it with a 2 year sunset or something and then do the hard work in the interim. He needs someone in the congress to help him and he's just learned Ryan may not be the guy. But I really do think he's going to start reaching out to the Dems. He's a pragmatist and a deal maker, and the promises he's made to his voters are to repeal the ACA, replace it with something that will cover everyone, and to save Medicare for all. Who else CAN he turn to for help with that but Democrats? It sure isn't going to be the Freedom Caucus.