26 Nov 06
Originally posted by NemesioDon't worry, it's not a trick question. I was wondering if the biological reaction that you described resists when the behaviour observed is commonplace.
I'm not sure I understand the question.
Basically, if biologically/neurologically those reactions would persist if homosexual behaviours are not unusual for the individual to see.
27 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by Palynka!! I didn't think it was a trick question; you seem the genuine sort!
Don't worry, it's not a trick question. I was wondering if the biological reaction that you described resists when the behaviour observed is commonplace.
Basically, if biologically/neurologically those reactions would persist if homosexual behaviours are not unusual for the individual to see.
I wasn't entirely clear. When you perform task T, the part of your brain controlling the motor
skills' center is firing, but so too is the place where the mirror neurons are housed. When you
observe someone Ting, while your motor skills' center isn't firing, the mirror neurons' place is.
Why? Because this is how we can immediately discern what a person is doing (and even
anticipate). The example I read was watching someone pick up a glass; if, in the background, you
see a neatly prepared meal and the glass is filled with milk, when you watch someone's picking up
the glass, your brain will go 'Ah, this person is going to drink.' You know this because you have
done it many times before and you have observed it many times before. If, in the background you
see lots of empty, dirty dishes and the glass is nearly empty and the person is collecting the dishes
while standing and picks up the glass -- even if they handle the glass the exact same way as above --
your brain knows that the person is bringing the glass to the dish washer, not drinking.
The mirror neurons are what allow us to store millions of everyday situations so we don't get
bombarded with 'new' information (you've never seen that person pick up that glass
after that meal on that day); neurologists also think this is why kids can literally not
see or hear things when they are focused on an object or action, because their mirror neurons are
'imprinting,' so to speak. I know that I, personally, find that time seems to move slower and
I don't notice lots of things when I am learning a brand new task in contrast with performing tasks
that I have done many times before. We adapted to learn by imitation, and this is the storage unit
for those experiences.
I hope this clears up 'mirror neurons.'
Now, to your question. When a straight person, like myself, sees two men kissing, I have a feeling
of revulsion, not because I have a moral objection to their act, but because my brain says 'He's kissing
me' or 'I'm kissing him.' It's not a conscious thought, it's not visualized in the creative centers of
the brain, it's not even concrete. I've found that the same thing happens when I watch boxing
matches with people who don't often watch; they flinch as if in pain when one lands a good punch
on the other.
I would guess that repeated exposure would reduce the tendency (presuming there isn't some
moral objection which helps stimulate or enhances it), simply because of conditioning; the brain
learns to ignore or suppress extraneous stimuli.
That having been said, I still flinch when I see some rounds of some fights, so maybe not.
I would imagine that the hardwiring from upbringing would influence this, too. If you were raised
in a homosexually tolerant household, read books like 'Joey had Two Daddies,' and had a gay uncle
with his partner, I imagine such transcendence would be easier than if you were raised in an
evangelical Christian household were Sunday sermons spoke of the pains of hell for those men
who 'sodomize each other' and so forth.
I'm just guessing based on intuition, here, though. And I'm not a psychologist or a neuroscientist,
so I could be quite wrong about this stuff (although I am pretty sure I understand what I have
read about mirror neurons).
Nemesio
27 Nov 06
For me it comes down to the question .. is it a choice or is homesexuality simply "natural"
With most of the gay men i've known the answer is obvious .. they're born gay IMHO .. perhaps some obscure gene.
With others i've known, it seemed to have been a choice .. they simply liked any type of sex at all.
Is it right/wrong?
The answer doesn't matter IMO if it's not a choice you make.
I know if I was inclined towards man-love, nothing anyone would say would prevent me from acting on it. No one elses judgement of me would matter to me.
Same as if I were going to be fat by eating what I like all the time (I do) .. i'd just be fat, because i'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of eating whatever I want .. life's way too short to let what others may think of you determine what you do.
It's your life .. go for it.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by jammertheres nothing wrong with gay men, i give a respect to them but im just against a gay marriages and thats absolutely wrong to the eye of GOd....
For me it comes down to the question .. is it a choice or is homesexuality simply "natural"
With most of the gay men i've known the answer is obvious .. they're born gay IMHO .. perhaps some obscure gene.
With others i've known, it seemed to have been a choice .. they simply liked any type of sex at all.
Is it right/wrong?
The answer doesn't matter IMO ...[text shortened]... let what others may think of you determine what you do.
It's your life .. go for it.
27 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by kirksey957You did not answer my question nor did anyone else for that matter. What role does homosexuality play in a Darwinian sense either in terms of human or animal reproduction? You said it plays the same role it has for thousands of years. What does that mean?
Thanks. I think when you use the term "sexual experimentation" you were thinking of adult behavior. The reality is that "sexual" behavior occurs at a very young age. It may not be intercourse, but there is a period in every child's life of experimenting. I remember when I was a kid we use to run off in the corn field and play strip poker. One day I w d it. And that in no way discounts your decisions to live your life as you have chosen.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyHomosexuality in other species has led to some hypotheses about the evolutionary selection of the behaviour.
I believe the question has to do with whether homosexuality is right or wrong. What is right or wrong? Morality depends on two factors. You either succumb to mob rule and do what society says to do, or you go your own way. When one goes their own way, it may be for a variety of reasons. Perhaps they cannot see the logic in what society believes to be rig ...[text shortened]... olutionists out there. What role does homosexuality play in the propetuation of the species?
Two ideas seem to be that:
1. it's a side effect of some other adaptation - that is, it's unintentional.
2. it;s deliberately selected for - that is, it's an intentional adaptation.
How could it be intentional?
Some studies suggest that dominant males may use homosexual behaviour to reduce the desire in other males to reproduce with the females - increasing their genetic transferrance.
Other studies suggest it reduces stress in some individuals and therefore increases their chances of survival in stressful lives.
Check out http://www.adherents.com/misc/paradoxEvolution.html for more info on this.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyIt is also considered a population feedback mechanism to control overall numbers as percentage of the population that is gay rises as competition for resources becomes more competitive.
You did not answer my question nor did anyone else for that matter. What role does homosexuality play in a Darwinian sense either in terms of human or animal reproduction? You said it plays the same role it has for thousands of years. What does that mean?
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyWhat a load of crap this thread is. You're the only person here with any intelligent stuff to offer, yet everyone else wants to be superior in the toilet.
Do you say that there is no phychological problems facing homosexuals?
Do you realy belive that they behave like normal people?
If it is really a human nature why most of them tend to hide their behaviour.
I will tell what do I mean by human nature. The natural sexual behaviour like any living species that depends on sex for multiplication is to be ...[text shortened]... homesexuality in any other species.
So why do you think human will have a different nature.
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27 Nov 06
Originally posted by jammerIt has been shown that there is correlation between reduced levels of seratonin and expressions of violence, and a genetic antecedent is responsible for this reduction, does that make violence morally right? Obviously it isn't a choice either.
Is it right/wrong?
The answer doesn't matter IMO if it's not a choice you make.
I know if I was inclined towards man-love, nothing anyone would say would prevent me from acting on it. No one elses judgement of me would matter to me.
Same as if I were going to be fat by eating what I like all the time (I do) .. i'd just be fat, because i'm not going to de ...[text shortened]... t to let what others may think of you determine what you do.
It's your life .. go for it.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by Orange PeelThe guy who can't spell for crap is the one with intelligent thoughts to offer? The guy who has been proven wrong once already? The guy who left the thread 4 pages ago?
What a load of crap this thread is. You're the only person here with any intelligent stuff to offer, yet everyone else wants to be superior in the toilet.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by xlacirDoes a hermaphrodite have a right before GOd to get married?
theres nothing wrong with gay men, i give a respect to them but im just against a gay marriages and thats absolutely wrong to the eye of GOd....
If they married someone the same, then it would statistically be a 50% gay marriage. If they married a man or a women, then it would still be 50% gay.
You could chop their dick off or maybe make it a dick to medically stipulate sex, but it doesn't really change anything as to the person they are. They still going to 50% gay, yet they would have a right before GOd to have a partner, no?
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by Orange PeelWhat planet are you on?
Does a hermaphrodite have a right before GOd to get married?
If they married someone the same, then it would statistically be a 50% gay marriage. If they married a man or a women, then it would still be 50% gay.
You could chop their dick off or maybe make it a dick to medically stipulate sex, but it doesn't really change anything as to the person t ...[text shortened]... are. They still going to 50% gay, yet they would have a right before GOd to have a partner, no?
Marriage has nothing to do with a god or gods. It's about people making a long term commitment to each other that is recognised as such by society.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by amannionI was replying to a post who referred to GOd as a distinguishing factor of homosexuality being right or wrong.
What planet are you on?
Marriage has nothing to do with a god or gods. It's about people making a long term commitment to each other that is recognised as such by society.
I've heard it done through animals.
I've heard it done Biblically in support of people's belief.
Society isn't a god????????
...What is wrong with distinguishing the rights or wrongs of a hermaphrodite getting married before GOD, to gain some grounding as to homosexuality being justified as right/wrong?