how about we just all admit there is no God ?

Originally posted by KellyJay
that there is going to an end of evil within the Kingdom
of God.

Not that anyone asked me, but I believe that point
is that WE are called to rid the world of 'evil' by
feeding the hungry, comforting the afflicted, &c as
per St Matthew. We are called to usher in God's
Kingdom. The Second Coming, as it were, is metaphorical:
we are to be Christ's second coming in the world by
acting as He would.

Nemesio

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm of the opinion it does not matter if it is pre-,mid-, or post-trib,
because if you are not ready when you die the timing of the trib will
not matter. My view about the trib is in Revelations only points to
one thing, that there is going to an end of evil within the Kingdom
of God. Evil is simply a small bump on the road of God's eternal plan
for His creation.
Kelly

Kind of a dodgy answer, but okay.

Originally posted by nemesio
Not that anyone asked me, but I believe that point
is that WE are called to rid the world of 'evil' by
feeding the hungry, comforting the afflicted, &c as
per St Matthew. We are called to usher in God's
Kingdom. The Second Coming, as it were, is metaphorical:
we are to be Christ's second coming in the world by
acting as He would.

Nemesio

This is an interesting view as well. Probably not too popular with many Evangelical Christians although it should be. Nemesio, How much time have you spent studying and analyzing the bible? You tend have very unique viewpoints on scripture. Unique to me anyways.

Originally posted by darvlay
Kind of a dodgy answer, but okay.

I wasn't attempting to dodgy, I do believe in the 2nd coming of
Christ and it is literally going to be the 2nd coming of Christ. It
is going to occur as described, my point was only that people should
not worry too much about when, just like they should worry about
turning 30 if they live long enough. It is coming, and at the time
it is supposed to be here it will be.
Kelly

Originally posted by darvlay
Probably not too popular with many Evangelical Christians although it should be. Nemesio, How much time have you spent studying and analyzing the bible? You tend have very unique viewpoints on scripture. Unique to me anyways.

1) Intuitively, it should be popular with Evangelical Christians because
it takes very literally St Matthew's account of the last judgement.

2) I have spent a great deal of time reading all sorts of literature, a
great deal of which I find to be Inspired or Scriptural. As a result,
secular humanists call me theist and theists call me a secular humanist.

3) Most of my views are synthetic, a combination of other secondary sources'
notions. I am pretty sure that nothing I've said is original.

Nemesio

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm of the opinion it does not matter if it is pre-,mid-, or post-trib,
because if you are not ready when you die the timing of the trib will
not matter. My view about the trib is in Revelations only points to
one thing, that there is going to an end of evil within the Kingdom
of God. Evil is simply a small bump on the road of God's eternal plan
for His creation.
Kelly

You'd think if this god was so smart and powerful, he have seen the bump coming and steered away from it.

Better yet, he wouldn't have put the bump there to begin with.

Originally posted by nsini14
there is god ...maybe the reason y u don't c miracles in america is bcause of america itself

maybe your profile should read, "I like chatting with new people from different places except America... I hate them.

Originally posted by telerion
You'd think if this god was so smart and powerful, he have seen the bump coming and steered away from it.

Better yet, he wouldn't have put the bump there to begin with.

The presumption here is that God controls all things.
When people say things like this, Evangelicals simply
say, 'We are too simple to understand God's master
plan.'

My opinion is that God does not 'control' all things;
I don't even believe that God actively intercedes (i.e.,
that piano didn't fall on my head because God moved it; or
I was cured of cancer because God made it go away). I
believe that God 'intercedes' through us when we behave
in an agapic fashion, inspired by the Truth all around us.
When Jesus 'cured' people, he was teaching them about
this Truth; they were healed of being blind (or dead) to
the needs of others. We all suffer from this blindness
to one degree or another.

I also believe firmly in the concept of free will. As Sin is
the absense of Love (i.e., Active Compassion), then 'Evil'
is simply actions taken without regard to the needs of
others. Most of the sins committed are the sins of omission,
not commission, where we totally ignore the desparate
needs of those around us, those to whom our conscience
tells us we should be reaching out to love.

When Christians are blind to the hate that we spread, their
claim that 'Jesus is Lord' is hollow, according to St James. To
be a Christian is to be an advocate to those who have no
advocates.

In light of this Thanksgiving Day, we should be reminded of one
of the most powerful parables of Jesus: The Good Samaritin. In
it, a person was assaulted and left for dead and so-called 'Good
People of Faith' ignored him. The Samaritin (who, in this day and
age could be any much-maligned group of choice) reached out
in love to the dying person. This imaginary person was 'being God'
to this person, reaching out in selfless love to help someone.

People bandy about the term, 'Be Christ to one another.' If you
think that 'being Christ' means attacking innocent civilians, then
you are nuts. If you think that 'being Christ' means supporting
the death penalty, then you are nuts. If you think 'being Christ'
is anything but feeding the poor (at your own expense) and comforting
the afflicted (at your own inconvenience), then you haven't learned
much from the Bible. Being a good Christian isn't convenient and it
isn't fun. It's constant work and sacrifice. It is seeing Christ in a person
and being Christ to that person.

In fact, the sermon which is called the Letter to the Hebrews has the
following exortation:

Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary
by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way which he opened for
us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a
great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart
in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil
conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast
the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is
faithful; and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good
works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but
encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth,
there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of
judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man
who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony
of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think
will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and
profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and
outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "Vengeance
is mine, I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:19-31

Read it carefully. What it means, very clearly and literally is, that
having heard the 'Truth,' Christians are called to act in selfless love,
to be Christ to all people (whether they like them or not). It means
that Jesus showed 'The Way, the Truth, and the Light,' to His followers.
He showed people what it is to be selfless. If you didn't get it from
Moses, and you didn't get it from Christ, you've got a problem!

If Christians think God is going to ask you, 'Did you believe in Me?' and
all you have to say is 'Yes!' then you haven't read your Bible. He's
going to ask, 'Did you feed Me when I was hungry? (That is, did you
see Christ in that person)'

You better have more than, 'I believe in Jesus' before that kind of
questioning.

Nemesio

Originally posted by nemesio
The presumption here is that God controls all things.
When people say things like this, Evangelicals simply
say, 'We are too simple to understand God's master
plan.'

My opinion is that God does not 'control' all things;
I don't even believe that God actively intercedes (i.e.,
that piano didn't fall on my head because God moved it; or
I was cu ...[text shortened]...
You better have more than, 'I believe in Jesus' before that kind of
questioning.

Nemesio

I don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus, but I sure do like what you just said!

Originally posted by KneverKnight
I don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus, but I sure do like what you just said!

According to Jesus, you don't have to. Believing in the
'Truth' is sufficient; that is, believing in Altruism as the
highest good.

Nemesio

Originally posted by nemesio
According to Jesus, you don't have to. Believing in the
'Truth' is sufficient; that is, believing in Altruism as the
highest good.

Nemesio

Well, there's nothing stopping me from becoming a Mason, know what I mean?
Sounds like you're having a good Thanksgiving.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Well, there's nothing from stopping me from becoming a Mason, know what I mean?

Interesting that you should mention this.

Of all the 'confraternities' (and I know that Masons do not
consider their fraternity as such, but according to strict definition,
it surely is), FreeMasonry has the most cogently conceived notions
of helping one's fellow man (or woman), not to mention the
most elegant ceremonies.

Am I a Mason? No, but I have gleaned what information I can
from those jurisdictions which permit parts of their ritual to be
communicated to 'profanes' (i.e., non-Masons).

Just like Christianity, if the ritual is done for ritual's sake, it has
no True meaning. However, if one is inspired to a more altruistic
life outside of the Lodge because of the ritual, then I
praise and laud their efforts.

Nemesio

P.S., if this was a direct question, then the only requirements of
a Mason are a male, 21 years of age (this varies by jurisdiction),
who believes in a Supreme Being.

Originally posted by nemesio
Interesting that you should mention this.

Of all the 'confraternities' (and I know that Masons do not
consider their fraternity as such, but according to strict definition,
it surely is), FreeMasonry has the most cogently conceived notions
of helping one's fellow man (or woman), not to mention the
most elegant ceremonies.

Am I a Mason? No, but ...[text shortened]... n are a male, 21 years of age (this varies by jurisdiction),
who believes in a Supreme Being.

My own "theory" is that masons became powerful at the time Cathedrals were being built, and were the first Labour Union, therefore are socialist in nature. Only thing I don't understand is: Did the Church order the Cathederals built, or did the Masons convince the Church that they could be built and therefore should be built?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
My own "theory" is that masons became powerful at the time Cathedrals were being built, and were the first Labour Union, therefore are socialist in nature. Only thing I don't understand is: Did the Church order the Cathederals built, or did the Masons convince the Church that they could be built and therefore should be built?

Well, it depends if you are talking about 'operative' masonry
(the guys who work with stone) or 'speculative' Masonry (or
Freemasonry, the guys who do all sorts of ritual reenactments
of various metaphorical events). Obviously, yes the former
became very powerful in the Middle Ages because they were
in demand. The latter have never been particularly powerful
(stories of the so-called 'Illuminati' nonewithstanding). The
Freemasons, as we know them today, derive from the 18th
century, but there is some speculation about their connection
with the Knights Templar (which seem plausible) and even
with Jesus (which is totally outlandish).

An interesting (if speculative) book is Knight's and Lomas' work
'The Hiram Key.' There are some crazy ideas, but it's a fun read
nonetheless.

Nemesio

P.S., I don't know specifically if scholars agree on who influenced
whom for the building of the Cathedrals. It seems (as many things
in history) to be a combination of factors.

Originally posted by nemesio
Well, it depends if you are talking about 'operative' masonry
(the guys who work with stone) or 'speculative' Masonry (or
Freemasonry, the guys who do all sorts of ritual reenactments
of various metaphorical events). Obviously, yes the former
became very powerful in the Middle Ages because they were
in demand. The latter have never been particula ...[text shortened]... ding of the Cathedrals. It seems (as many things
in history) to be a combination of factors.

Of course. I thought that Freemasons were connected to stone masons, but this idea may be wrong. It could be that Freemasons merely adapted the symbols of real masonry to identify with the idea that both groups have knowledge that is held secret.
I've been meaning to read "The Hiram Key"