24 Dec 07
Originally posted by Marinkatombshow us yer teets baby
What has happened to us? The World is being ripped apart by men seeking dominance. For starters we have the 'Democracy v's Islam' conflict, where the World is being forced to choose between insane religious fundamentalists who are blowing up innocent people in the name of some Satanic interpretation of scripture. On the other hand we have scare mongers, ...[text shortened]... conflict throughout history. Peace is only achieved dialog, not fear and aggression.
26 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by MarinkatombMy favorite book on the male psyche is "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover." It shows how poor male behavior can be interpreted as under- or over-development along one of four Jungian archetypes: the King, who creates order; the Warrior, who takes action; the Magician, who thinks and creates; and the Lover, who shows passion.
Perhaps i should explain the title. Both sides of this nonsense are led by male denominators. The real trouble makers (Bush/BinLaden, etc...) are perfect examples of Men who experience too much testosterone!
This is how i see it...
Everything in existence is caught in a paradox. We (by this i mean things that exist, whether that means elementary pa vided by vested interests like this, do we??
Hope that wasn't too hippy dippy...😉
They also do a lot with how these archetypes exist in boy psychology and then develop as we become adults.
For example, too much "King" results in a tyrant, but too little is indecisive. Too much "Warrior" is brutal, too little is a pushover, etc.
If there is a psychological goal for men, then, it would be to access each aspect in its fullness, neither over-working nor neglecting any archetype.
I'm sure one could do a similar exercise for women -- I have not heard about it, but it would be an interesting read. Women are no better off psychologically than we are -- THAT I am sure of (all married men are sure of this.)
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by MarinkatombAnd if somewhere out there,
How do we break this negative cycle? Where is our saviour, the one who'll attack this problem with [b]LOVE! War and aggression is not the answer, we all know that, surely? Look at any conflict throughout history. Peace is only achieved dialog, not fear and aggression.[/b]
Nearby or far away, we're summoned
By war, by country, by life,
Let them summon us in vain, and let
Each, under some friendly shade,
Dream of his opponent.
And the chess game, of its indifference.
Fernando Pessoa (1916)
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by MarinkatombI'm afraid thus us where you have erred. Peace has NEVER been achieved through dialogue, diplomacy, etc. It is achieved only through war. It seems antithetical, and I don't like it, but I've looked and tried to gind one example in history of a peace arrived at thru dialogue and not by force of arms; I can't do it. Perhaps you can. Ig so, please forward it to Macswain 🙂
Peace is only achieved dialog, not fear and aggression.[/b]
10 Jan 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydWars don't achieve peace, they achieve domination of the weak. When there is dialogue, there is no need for war in the first place. War is NEVER undertaken to achieve peace, it is greed and self interest, neither of which are peaceful in any way...
I'm afraid thus us where you have erred. Peace has NEVER been achieved through dialogue, diplomacy, etc. It is achieved only through war. It seems antithetical, and I don't like it, but I've looked and tried to gind one example in history of a peace arrived at thru dialogue and not by force of arms; I can't do it. Perhaps you can. Ig so, please forward it to Macswain 🙂
10 Jan 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydAhh yes PF, we have had this debate before. You remembered!
I'm afraid thus us where you have erred. Peace has NEVER been achieved through dialogue, diplomacy, etc. It is achieved only through war. It seems antithetical, and I don't like it, but I've looked and tried to gind one example in history of a peace arrived at thru dialogue and not by force of arms; I can't do it. Perhaps you can. Ig so, please forward it to Macswain 🙂
Historically, there have been only two results of negotiations with adversaries , one good - one bad
Good...It buys time for you to re-arm and build positions of strength facilitating the crushing of him.
Bad...It buys time for your adversary to re-arm and build positions of strength facilitating his crushing you.
10 Jan 08
Originally posted by MarinkatombWell said dear lady, your grasp of history is unparalleled. Everyone agrees with you that the western allies undertook war to dominate poor, weak Germany and Japan and did it because of greed and the massive riches they looted from those countries after their victory. You are also correct that that war did not achieve peace as Germany and Japan are still not peaceful nations. Brilliant. [i]'tongue firmly in cheek'[i]
Wars don't achieve peace, they achieve domination of the weak. When there is dialogue, there is no need for war in the first place. War is NEVER undertaken to achieve peace, it is greed and self interest, neither of which are peaceful in any way...
[b]PLEASE![b]
10 Jan 08
Originally posted by MacSwainI don't remember exactly, but there is a famous quote that basically goes .....War is just the continuation of diplomacy, through other means.
Well said dear lady, your grasp of history is unparalleled. Everyone agrees with you that the western allies undertook war to dominate poor, weak Germany and Japan and did it because of greed and the massive riches they looted from those countries after their victory. You are also correct that that war did not achieve peace as Germany and Japan are still not peaceful nations. Brilliant. [i]'tongue firmly in cheek'[i]
[b]PLEASE![b]
I'm sure that if we just talked more to Adolph Hitler and understood his wants and needs , we could have come to a peaceful solution based on mutual respect and love.
(sarcastic mode off)
11 Jan 08
Originally posted by MacSwainMacSwain! I may have found the Holy Grail: that elusive "lasting peace achieved solely by diplomacy"! The answer is.....[drum roll]...Switzerland. Thay have been in no armed conflicts since declaring themselves perpetually neutral in 1674. I believe the last war they were actively involved in was the 30 Years War, which ended, when...about 1650? That's a pretty good record of peace through not-that-much superior firepower. It would appear that this little country has endured over 300 years of peace with n'ary a battle being fought. And a simple Declaration of Peace would qualify as diplomacy, I think. How about it--does Swiss Peace count as a lasting peace thru negotiation?
Ahh yes PF, we have had this debate before. You remembered!
Historically, there have been only two results of negotiations with adversaries , one good - one bad
Good...It buys time for you to re-arm and build positions of strength facilitating the crushing of him.
Bad...It buys time for your adversary to re-arm and build positions of strength facilitating his crushing you.
12 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PinkFloydCould be, but who were the adverse parties negotiated with? There needs to be others involved I would think. Unless negotiation is akin to sex, that is, something you can have by yourself. 😉
MacSwain! I may have found the Holy Grail: that elusive "lasting peace achieved solely by diplomacy"! The answer is.....[drum roll]...Switzerland. Thay have been in no armed conflicts since declaring themselves perpetually neutral in 1674. I believe the last war they were actively involved in was the 30 Years War, which ended, when...about 1650? That plomacy, I think. How about it--does Swiss Peace count as a lasting peace thru negotiation?
Negotiation: n Discussions between adverse parties, with the goal of resolving their differences.
12 Jan 08
2 edits
Originally posted by MacSwainGood point! To my knowledge, Switzerland simply declared themselves neutral rhetorically, a diplomatic handjob so yo speak.
Could be, but who were the adverse parties negotiated with? There needs to be others involved I would think. Unless negotiation is akin to sex, that is, something you can have by yourself. 😉
Negotiation: n Discussions between adverse parties, with the goal of resolving their differences.