How to Make People Rely on the Government

Originally posted by JS357
The salaries of my state (California) governor and legislators have been cut 23% in the past 4 years. They are still at or near the top in the country, but we are a big complex state and economy, and if a country, would have about the 8th highest GDP in the world, bigger than Russia's in 2012.

It seems to me that State officials should get no higher pay than a k12 public school teacher in that state. On the national level it seems to me that public officials should get no higher pay than the highest paid k12 school teacher, taking into account the number of years in service.

Originally posted by Eladar
I didn't say democracy is evil. I said using the power of government to take money from others to give it to yourself is evil.

Surely a necessary consequence of democracy is that people can vote for proposals that benefit them personally?

Originally posted by Eladar
It seems to me that State officials should get no higher pay than a k12 public school teacher in that state. On the national level it seems to me that public officials should get no higher pay than the highest paid k12 school teacher, taking into account the number of years in service.

It seems to me that a lot of things should be different from what they are.

Edit: Here is the highest AVERAGE teacher pay I could find locally. The highest paid? Your guess is better than mine. The 210 is the number of teachers in the district.

MOUNTAIN VIEW-LOS ALTOS UNION HIGH Santa Clara 210 $103,172

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html?appSession=127453535573494

I believe our governor makes about $165,000. There are other public officials, like college presidents, making much more.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Surely a necessary consequence of democracy is that people can vote for proposals that benefit them personally?

That is one of the shortcoming of democracies described in Federalist #9 and #10 on the danger of factions.

The intent of a republic is to keep government from favoring particular discreet groups, who it was recognized would seek personal advantage.

Originally posted by JS357
It seems to me that a lot of things should be different from what they are.

Edit: Here is the highest AVERAGE teacher pay I could find locally. The highest paid? Your guess is better than mine. The 210 is the number of teachers in the district.

MOUNTAIN VIEW-LOS ALTOS UNION HIGH Santa Clara 210 $103,172

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how- ...[text shortened]... kes about $165,000. There are other public officials, like college presidents, making much more.

That's the problem, they make much much more.

As I said, also take into consideration number of years of service.

Originally posted by normbenign
That is one of the shortcoming of democracies described in Federalist #9 and #10 on the danger of factions.

The intent of a republic is to keep government from favoring particular discreet groups, who it was recognized would seek personal advantage.

A "faction" is hardly an individual now is it?

Originally posted by Eladar
That's the problem, they make much much more.

As I said, also take into consideration number of years of service.

Well, maybe you should collect signatures for an initiative, if you have an initiative process in your state. Democracy in action.

Originally posted by JS357
Well, maybe you should collect signatures for an initiative, if you have an initiative process in your state. Democracy in action.

"Democracy in action" is a farce. Our government is a joke, that's the problem. As long as people rely on the government for support, they will never do what is needed to fix the problem.

Originally posted by Eladar
"Democracy in action" is a farce. Our government is a joke, that's the problem. As long as people rely on the government for support, they will never do what is needed to fix the problem.

There's a guy out here collecting signatures to make 6 states out of California. He's relying on governmental systems. I suppose if he loses, he'll blame the system.

Sometimes it isn't the system that stifles the idea. Sometimes it's the merit of the idea that stifles the idea.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-cap-california-20140417-column.html

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
A "faction" is hardly an individual now is it?

No, of course not. I did not think it necessary to define a faction.

Originally posted by JS357
There's a guy out here collecting signatures to make 6 states out of California. He's relying on governmental systems. I suppose if he loses, he'll blame the system.

Sometimes it isn't the system that stifles the idea. Sometimes it's the merit of the idea that stifles the idea.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-cap-california-20140417-column.html

Unfortunately, in CA and in MI democracy is too much in action. In both places the people voted for and passed initiative to define marriage in its traditional definition.

Now in both places courts have reversed those initiatives. Perhaps the originating democracy was an overreach, and then perhaps the reversal by the courts was, or was it protecting a minority from the will of the majority?

Originally posted by JS357
There's a guy out here collecting signatures to make 6 states out of California. He's relying on governmental systems. I suppose if he loses, he'll blame the system.

Sometimes it isn't the system that stifles the idea. Sometimes it's the merit of the idea that stifles the idea.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-cap-california-20140417-column.html

Show me one good idea for the federal govenment that has been implemented by referendum in the past 25 years.

Originally posted by Eladar
Show me one good idea for the federal govenment that has been implemented by referendum in the past 25 years.

You need an education on referendum versus initiative, and state versus federal. Maybe you should ask norm for a tutorial.

Originally posted by JS357
You need an education on referendum versus initiative, and state versus federal. Maybe you should ask norm for a tutorial.

Well moron, perhaps you can answer the spirit of the question instead of side stepping it.

Originally posted by Eladar
Well moron, perhaps you can answer the spirit of the question instead of side stepping it.

I'll wait till you show you are back to a more civil mood. Meanwhile, do the research even without Norm.