I apologise .....

Originally posted by ivanhoe
[b]ahosyney: " ..... and suppose to be the law of Christians as Jesus did come to break the law. .... "

Jesus did not break the Law. Jesus came to fulfill the Law.


ahosyney: "Because Christians don't activate this law that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It only means they don't follow the teachings of the Bible."

Not quite. Please read ...[text shortened]... he law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."[/b]

Hi

I know this story very much, and I'm not going to discuss it, or its cridetability. My point is Islam is not the origin of stoning Punishment , and is not the only law that support it , as Jews still use the law of Moses.

Given that your story show that Jesus appear to cancel the stoning punishment, that doesn't change the fact that he as part of the holy trinity was the origin of this law from the begining (I'm not discussing the holy trinity here).

I belive that Islam is the religion of the GOD of the Bible, so the law is the same, but you don't belive that. In either cases the source of this punishment is the same, the BIBLE.

---------------------------------------
I want to ask you some questions:

Is adultry a crime or a sin in Christianity? In either cases is there a punishment for it, and what is it if there is?

Also is what is the punishment of Murder, Rap, and Steeling according to Christianity?

I really want to know.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
For my carelessness of chosing and posting a video of a mob execution which took place in Iraqi Kurdistan and showed a stoning carried out by people who are members of a religious minority and as such are are not looked upon as being regarded as representatives of Islam, I apologise.

There seem to be certain people, however, who think that, because I mist ...[text shortened]... e past and will be carried out in the future in countries where Sharia Law is a cruel reality.

Forgiven.... 😵

Originally posted by ahosyney
Also is what is the punishment of Murder, Rap, and Steeling according to Christianity?

The punishment for rap is six months of Gregorian chanting inside a padded cell...

Sorry, just kidding. I don't think Christianity prescribes punishments for any crime, rape or otherwise--it's so other-worldly--unless "give Caesar his due" is a hint in that direction.

Ahosyney--with regard to Islamic legal interpretation--when were the "gates of interpretation" closed?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I thought no1 was a member of the Wolfpack. Doesn't this sort of blow your whole conspiracy theory?

It actually proves the conspiracy because by bundling him off the site you and bbbberocca have by putatively showing scant regard for his reputation or prestige (alleged) and in shaming him publicly into seclusion you have 'shown' that you are not part of a coordinated tag team. Apparently. But this may just be a devious, superficial window dressing, designed to bury any hint of collusion such that when the no1 returns he will be able to benefit from easy layups and other setups by his wolf buddies scroobly and the b that bounces.

Originally posted by ahosyney

Also is what is the punishment of Murder, Rap, and Steeling according to Christianity?

I apologize in advance for any sincerity of yours I might abuse but I couldn't resist the following.

Gangsta's are pretty particular if you ride on 18's 19's 20's or 21's but whether or not they take issue for those who ride on Steel as opposed to those who ride on alloys.... I dont know. I'm not sure if its an unconscionable act to present your G-unit with non alloy rims so who knows in South East Central maybe 'Steeling' could be considered a crime against the ethos of being in tha Hood so maybe it could be punishable by death.

As far as murder and rap goes, it seems to improve the legitimacy of the artist and adds street cred, so much so that Australia recently denied Snoop entry to present at our local MTV awards because of his former criminal record. As Australia considers itself to be a Christian country the punishment for murder rap and steeling appears to be the denial of a visitors visa to our wonderful paradise.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
You opened a thread about the threat of wife-beating in the Netherlands, and when asked for case studies produced your video nasty from Kurdistan. Any time you want a serious discussion your original topic, just cite some reliable source that bears on the topic you're discussing. That Bahraini woman you cited was the best so far, except she was talking ...[text shortened]... ve to reinforce the impression that you are a whiny paranoiac, which I'm sure is not the case.

Listen BdN, if you think you can amend and change the issues and subjects I intend to talk about and when you twist and turn the words and terms I am using without any effort from your side to try and understand what I am trying to say, don't expect me to constantly and repeatedly adress these intentional misconceptions on your part.

The thread you are taking about is titled "Women's Rights In Islam: Wife Beating" ... and that is exactly what it is about. The aim of the thread is to discuss the ways we can initiate a dialogue with the advocates of Sharia Law .... and as it happens I received serious reactions from one or maybe two Muslims who are willing to adress the problem and indeed start a serious dialogue.

Here is the thread's first post introducing the issue:

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Women's Rights In Islam: Wife Beating

YouTube&mode=related&search=

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In case there are people out there thinking that this is a problem restricted to the Islam part of the world, I have to disappoint them. The fact is that this wifebeating which is being rationalised and advocated by large sections of the Islamic faith, is also a big problem in Europe ... and it is growing.

In the Netherlands we are facing these problems on an everyday bases. The fact that people immigrated to our country who have a culture and ideology or religion which differs on fundamental points with ours poses a big social and cultural problem. These differences do not just manifest themselves in the way the immigrants view the relationship between husband and wife, but also the way they view their relationships with their daughters and sons, and in the way they bring them up.

There is no instant solution, but what do you propose to handle this situation and what do you propose to eventually solve this problem.

Only serious reactions please.

*******************************************************************************

If you BdN, for some reason or another, want me to force to limit the subject in this thread to "Wife-beating among Muslim Immigrants in the Netherlands" than you certainly cannot bring in the argument that it is I who have limited the range of the subject. It is clearly you are trying to force this limitation on me ( ... and others ?) by making demands and attacking me for not meeting them.

Can you explain why ?

Originally posted by Seitse
Dear ivanhoe, don't waste your time with people whose pride and
self-esteem depends on 'moping the floor' with a user in an internet
forum...

Their life must be so meaningful to have such "achievements" in life, lol

😉

Originally posted by ivanhoe
In the Netherlands we are facing these problems on an everyday bases. The fact that people immigrated to our country who have a culture and ideology or religion which differs on fundamental points with ours poses a big social and cultural problem.

So...
What sources do you get this information from?

Originally posted by ahosyney
Hi

I know this story very much, and I'm not going to discuss it, or its cridetability. My point is Islam is not the origin of stoning Punishment , and is not the only law that support it , as Jews still use the law of Moses.

Given that your story show that Jesus appear to cancel the stoning punishment, that doesn't change the fact that he as part of t punishment of Murder, Rap, and Steeling according to Christianity?

I really want to know.

Ahosyney: "My point is Islam is not the origin of stoning"

We agree on this issue.

My point was and is that Sharia Law, which is Islamic Law, has executed and still is executing the death penalty by stoning.

Ahosney: "Given that your story show that Jesus appear to cancel the stoning punishment, that doesn't change the fact that he as part of the holy trinity was the origin of this law from the begining (I'm not discussing the holy trinity here).

Sure, that's why adultary still is a sin. Jesus adresses the woman at the end of the story saying: "Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more."

The sin of adultery remains a sin. The moral principles behind the Mosaic Law stay intact. Therefore the Law as such stays intact. The fact that Jesus pardoned the adulterous woman does not mean he declares adulterous behaviour morally acceptable. On the contrary ! Jesus pardoning the adulterous woman and demonstrating grace, is a foreshadowing of the establishment of the Second Covenant.

The fact that Jesus died on the Cross (=death penalty) in our place is the key to understand why He did not break the Mosaic Law by pardoning the adulterous woman. On the contrary, His mission was to fulfill the Law by establishing the second and everlasting Covenant.

Romans 8: 1-3


1 Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law, weakened by the flesh, was powerless to do, this God has done: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for the sake of sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

4 so that the righteous decree of the law might be fulfilled in us, who live not according to the flesh but according to the spirit.


http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PYW.HTM



Ahosyney: "Is adultry a crime or a sin in Christianity?"

It is a sin. I'm not sure what you're asking here. All crimes are sins, but not all sins are crimes.

Ahosyney: "Also is what is the punishment of Murder, Rap, and Steeling according to Christianity?"

The Roman-Catholic Church does not list any punishments for whatever sin or crime. The Church investigates and establishes the moral (im)permissibility of performing certain acts.

The Church does not advocate the death penalty. The death penalty is only morally acceptable in cases wherein performing capital punishment is necessary for society to survive. This situation, however, is considered to be a theoretical one. There are usually other means to restore order and thus save a community.

Originally posted by Jay Joos
Forgiven.... 😵

Thanks JJ .... 🙂

Originally posted by ivanhoe
In the Netherlands we are facing these problems on an everyday bases.

I'm glad you've got some productive dialogue going with some other people. As for me, I am interested in concrete examples, since I prefer to proceed from minute particulars rather than narrow down from vague universal concepts, and I am particularly interested in concrete examples of the problems you are concerned with manifesting in the Netherlands, since a "Muslim eruption" is clearly something that you and many others fear. It rather looks as though the bogey-man is wearing a turban.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I'm glad you've got some productive dialogue going with some other people. As for me, I am interested in concrete examples, since I prefer to proceed from minute particulars rather than narrow down from vague universal concepts, and I am particularly interested in concrete examples of the problems you are concerned with manifesting in the Netherlands, that you and many others fear. It rather looks as though the bogey-man is wearing a turban.

You assume too much and then project your ideas about certain people on me. I'm not in for that game.

If you want to discuss the issues you mention and of which you claim to be interested in ("I am particularly interested in concrete examples" ), you are free to open a thread on it and maybe there are people who are willing to join you there.

Another possibility is of course to get of your lazy arse and do some research on your own instead of demanding and insisting that others do it for you.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Another possibility is of course to get of your lazy arse and do some research on your own instead of demanding and insisting that others do it for you.

Uh, normally one does the research before presenting a case, so it's reasonable to expect you to have some facts available to back up your statements, sad git.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Uh, normally one does the research before presenting a case, so it's reasonable to expect you to have some facts available to back up your statements, sad git.

Research? Facts? Back up your statements? Where do you think you are, in a Debates Forum or something?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Uh, normally one does the research before presenting a case, so it's reasonable to expect you to have some facts available to back up your statements, sad git.

You sound and act like a spoiled child not getting what it wants. Open a thread of your own if you're so interested in these "cases" you mention. The case I wanted to present (thread title "Women's Rights In Islam: Wife Beating" ) has been backed up in a more than sufficient way.

You are at best when demanding things from people and spouting your pretentious one-liners on the forums, you spoiled little boy.