09 May 07
Originally posted by ivanhoeAnswer my bloody question then!
You assume too much and then project your ideas about certain people on me. I'm not in for that game.
If you want to discuss the issues you mention and of which you claim to be interested in ("I am particularly interested in concrete examples" ), you are free to open a thread on it and maybe there are people who are willing to join you there.
Another ...[text shortened]... d do some research on your own instead of demanding and insisting that others do it for you.
I live in the Netherlands, I've worked 5 years intensively with the moslim community (in and out of refugee camps).
Show me the resources which say that wife-beating is a massive problem within the Dutch Islamic community.
Go on. I dare you. I double dare you.
I'll tell you why you don't, because there are none.
None at all.
Oh, I'm sure we can come up with some stats, but most, if not all of them, show that wife-beating is just as common-place within Christian homes as it is within Islamic homes.
Maybe, just maybe, married lesbian vegetarians have a lower rate of abuse... But even that's difficult to prove.
I'm very close friends with people who work in "Vrouwenopvang" (Woman's sanctiary), and all of them verify that that more than 50% of women there are white Dutch nationals and that the largest group of non-white Dutch nationals are Afro-Carribbean (so non-moslim).
Show me the figures!
09 May 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeFound anything yet Ivanhoe?
I'm waiting Nordlys .....
Found anything remotely supporting your case?
No, of course you haven't.
And let me explain why.
IT ISN'T THERE!
It's very difficult to get hold of facts on abuse in the home.
For example there were 56.000 reports on abuse made to the police in 2006. A rough estimation is that only 12% of incidents are reported, meaning the police think that more than 500.000 incidents happen each year.
Some communities are more close-knitted when it comes to talking about these matters than others, and none of them are very forth-coming, so figures are hard to come by.
I'm afraid this link is in Dutch: http://stophuiselijkgeweld.opvang.nl/page5.html
But its source is the Dutch ministry of justice.
It goes on to state that abuse in ethnical house-holds is also worrying. This is partly due to various "specialised" forms of abuse like "blood killings" (which is usually man on man abuse, found in various cultures - Mark).
Nothing about moslims though... no sirree...
Nothing about moslims specifically being well known for their wife-beating... nope... not at all...
09 May 07
Originally posted by shavixmirRecced for trying to do some actual research, instead of trying to hysterically compile unrelated and only mildly relevant "evidence".
Found anything yet Ivanhoe?
Found anything remotely supporting your case?
No, of course you haven't.
And let me explain why.
IT ISN'T THERE!
It's very difficult to get hold of facts on abuse in the home.
For example there were 56.000 reports on abuse made to the police in 2006. A rough estimation is that only 12% of incidents are reported, m ...[text shortened]... t moslims specifically being well known for their wife-beating... nope... not at all...
I think it's laughable that Ivanhoe still maintains that he isn't working to an agenda.
D
10 May 07
Originally posted by ivanhoe--Your Excellency, it has come to my attention that bestiality is rife among the Dutch immigrant population.
You sound and act like a spoiled child not getting what it wants. Open a thread of your own if you're so interested in these "cases" you mention. The case I wanted to present (thread title "Women's Rights In Islam: Wife Beating" ) has been backed up in a more than sufficient way.
You are at best when demanding things from people and spouting your pretentious one-liners on the forums, you spoiled little boy.
--Good heavens, I'll have them executed on the spot! But wait--what evidence have you got?
--Here is a video showing Dutch immigrants in orgies with a variety of beasts.
(His Excellency squints at the label on the case)
--But this is a porno shot in Bangkok! The actors are professionals! Perhaps some of them are Dutch, but...Haven't you got any better evidence than this?
--Do your own research, Your Excellency. You're such a spoilt child!
You silly, silly man.
10 May 07
2 edits
Originally posted by shavixmirThe issue is and remains that I want to adress the fact that there are certain Mullahs and other Muslim scholars who defend the moral permissibility of wife-beating.
Answer my bloody question then!
I live in the Netherlands, I've worked 5 years intensively with the moslim community (in and out of refugee camps).
Show me the resources which say that wife-beating is a massive problem within the Dutch Islamic community.
Go on. I dare you. I double dare you.
I'll tell you why you don't, because there are none.
on-white Dutch nationals are Afro-Carribbean (so non-moslim).
Show me the figures!
Do you deny this fact which I want to discuss ?
Originally posted by shavixmirShavixmir: "Found anything yet Ivanhoe?
Found anything yet Ivanhoe?
Found anything remotely supporting your case?
No, of course you haven't.
And let me explain why.
IT ISN'T THERE!
It's very difficult to get hold of facts on abuse in the home.
For example there were 56.000 reports on abuse made to the police in 2006. A rough estimation is that only 12% of incidents are reported, m ut moslims specifically being well known for their wife-beating... nope... not at all...
Found anything remotely supporting your case?
No, of course you haven't."
I have found and presented enough material to support my case, which is to adress the fact that certain mullahs and Muslim scholars are rationalising and defending the moral permissibility of wife beating ...... also in Europe .... but it seems that you are trying to change the case I am making. Please check out the thread titled "Woman's Rights In Islam: Wife beating".