10 Nov 06
Originally posted by howardgeeThat's what I expected, and is the current position in Britain. I do find it ironic that in these times of PC-driven obsession with equality that a women who becomes unintentionally pregnant has a choice but a man who unintentionally makes a women pregnant doesn't.
No.
The father-to-be can try to persuade the pregant woman to have an abortion.
If she wants to have the child then it becomes partly his responsibility.
Tough luck guys, that's just the way it is...choose your sexual partners carefully!
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by Ian68I think that if the father doesn't want the child, he should be legally responsible for enough money to pay for an abortion. If the woman doesn't want to have the abortion, then it is her responsibility to raise the child. Of course, this also means that the father has no legal parental rights(i.e. no visitation, access to medical records, etc.). This should definitely be an option, as it is unfair for a man to have to spend the next 18 years payig for a child he never wanted. However, if he has already claimed responsibility for the child(i.e. was raising it with the mother) then he cannot simply leave her and expect to be absolved of this responsibility.
So are you agreeing that it should be acceptable for such a contract to be drawn up before a child has been born?
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by Ian68C'mon, it's not rocket science.
That's what I expected, and is the current position in Britain. I do find it ironic that in these times of PC-driven obsession with equality that a women who becomes unintentionally pregnant has a choice but a man who unintentionally makes a women pregnant doesn't.
Stick your member in unprotected and a child may result.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by Ian68True, there is an imbalance...but there is a natural imbalance anyway as the mother has to carry the foetus around, suffer morning sickness, get backache, probably need stitches afterwards, get post natal depression, etc.
That's what I expected, and is the current position in Britain. I do find it ironic that in these times of PC-driven obsession with equality that a women who becomes unintentionally pregnant has a choice but a man who unintentionally makes a women pregnant doesn't.
Life's not fair and the sexes aren't equal.
10 Nov 06
I'm sorry, if you aren't prepared to take the risks then you shouldn't play the field. Either abstain, get your ass fixed, or play the home team. Otherwise you don't have an excuse for taking a risk. Sex is a biological drive for a reason, to have children. And money is not the only issue on the table, custody is also an issue. Legally parent can not be denied visitation rights, so shut up about your whining. The street works two ways. It took two people, two consenting adults to get into the situation, and I hate it when either party tries to shift blame for the consequences of their actions. Honestly grow up.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by DoctorDara'Play the home team'?
I'm sorry, if you aren't prepared to take the risks then you shouldn't play the field. Either abstain, get your ass fixed, or play the home team. Otherwise you don't have an excuse for taking a risk. Sex is a biological drive for a reason, to have children. And money is not the only issue on the table, custody is also an issue. Legally parent can not be d ...[text shortened]... n either party tries to shift blame for the consequences of their actions. Honestly grow up.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by DoctorDaraExactly. That's why it's also ridicule to exclude the father of the decision regarding abortion.
I'm sorry, if you aren't prepared to take the risks then you shouldn't play the field. Either abstain, get your ass fixed, or play the home team. Otherwise you don't have an excuse for taking a risk. Sex is a biological drive for a reason, to have children. And money is not the only issue on the table, custody is also an issue. Legally parent can not be d ...[text shortened]... n either party tries to shift blame for the consequences of their actions. Honestly grow up.
If the decision of giving birth or aborting were exclusively the mother's choice, I don't see why the man should be held responsible afterwards.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by howardgeeAbortion is directly connected to birth.
This is a non-sequitor.
Once the foetus has been born it becomes a child and a responsibility of the parents.
If the father wants an abortion and the mother doesn't, then she should be prepared to take sole responsibility for the child.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by XanthosNZSlimJim will twiddle his thumbs, staring at his computer screen with a tear in his eye, having lost his raison d'être on RHP, cursing the *@*!*!@*!!* French girl who got his pal evicted... having no more posts to recommend and having no one to recommend his own posts now.
What will slimjim do now?
*Sniff*
10 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaWow, laugh worthy. I don't know if you're that self-centered or that unaware. If there's anything we learned in class it's that no method of abortion is 100% effective, most are around 98-99% and some late term abortions actually result in live births (Oops). By law a woman has the right to choose if she will have an abortion a procedure which can have massive side effects or birth which can also result in the same. It's not like the decision to use a condom which can be joint, it's a personal decision that ultimately effects her body, not the male. Yes, it may later effect your checkbook, but your life is not personally at risk except maybe from an angry father with a shotgun. ;-) And legally a live birth is protected under the 14th amendment in the US so if both of you screw up, you're still stuck with a child with a LEGAL right to live. Heaven forbid you both decide not to have the kid, and the child still decides it wants to live.
Exactly. That's why it's also ridicule to exclude the father of the decision regarding abortion.
If the decision of giving birth or aborting were exclusively the mother's choice, I don't see why the man should be held responsible afterwards.
Here's case law in my area: http://legis.state.sd.us/statutes/DisplayStatute.aspx?Type=Statute&Statute=34-23A-16
I also take you to risks from abortion, one of which ironically is live birth...oops. "What are the physical risks of surgical abortions?12
First Trimester
Second Trimester
Third Trimester
First Trimester
• Cervical tearing and laceration from the instruments.
• Perforation of the uterus by instruments (May require major surgery, including hysterectomy).
• Scarring of the uterine lining by suction tubing, curettes, and other instruments.
• Infection, local and systemic (sepsis).
• Hemorrhage and shock, especially if the uterine artery is torn.
• Anesthesia toxicity from both general and local anesthesia, resulting in possible convulsions, cardio-respiratory arrest, and in extreme cases, death. General anesthesia in abortion has to two to four times greater risk of death than local anesthesia.
• Retained tissue indicated by cramping, heavy bleeding, and infection.
• Postabortal syndrome, referring to an enlarged, tender and soft uterus retaining blood clots.
• Failure to recognize an ectopic pregnancy. This could lead to the rupture of a fallopian tube and hemorrhage and resulting infertility or death, if treatment is not provided in time.
Top of Page
Second Trimester Infusion Methods
• Adverse reactions by the mother to the chemicals used in the abortion.
• "Failed abortion," also known as "live birth."
• Retained tissue, including the placenta.
• Uterine ruptures, with resulting severe pain and blood loss. May require major surgery, including hysterectomy.
• Cervical laceration, perforation, heavy bleeding or hemorrhage, and infection.
Top of Page
Second and Third Trimester Dilation and Evacuation (D&E)
• Trapped fetal parts, leading to possible damage to the uterus and nearby organs, such as the bowel and bladder.
• Laceration and perforation of the uterus and/or cervix by fetal parts and/or the larger instruments used in these midterm abortions.
• Greater risk of hemorrhage.
Top of Page
How often do abortion complications and deaths occur?
Getting accurate statistics on abortion morbidity (complications) and mortality (death) rates is difficult. The rates are generally accepted as under reported. Reporting on abortions is strictly voluntary in most states, and both CDC and Alan Guttmacher Institute acknowledge a significant undercount in their statistics on the number of abortions performed.13
The rate of major complications resulting from abortion is usually reported at around 2%. The risk of complications rises as a pregnancy progresses. In many cases, abortionists may not even know complications occur, as many women do not contact them if they experience problems, and many women fail to return for follow-up appointments.14
The CDC reports that between 1979 and 1986 almost 5% of maternal deaths were due to abortion (including spontaneous abortions), for a total number of 124. The leading causes of death from abortion during 1979-1986 were hemorrhage from uterine bleeding, generalized infection, and blood clots in the lungs. However, many abortion-related deaths are not listed as such, but as a complication of childbirth, or some factor caused by the abortion without mentioning the abortion.
To further illustrate the problem, Dr. C. Everett Koop, in his 1989 letter to President Ronald Reagan, explained that the lack of scientifically sound studies made it impossible to "provide conclusive data about the health effects of abortion on women," and stated that complications are difficult to quantify for two reasons: "first, . . . because . . . abortions are done in freestanding abortion clinics where records which might have been helpful in this regard, have not been kept [Note: In the 1990s, over 90% of abortions are being performed in freestanding clinics15]. Second, . . . when compared with the number of abortions performed annually, 50% of the women who have had an abortion apparently deny having had one when questioned."16" http://www.realchoicespcc.org/abortion.html