09 Nov 06
Originally posted by FrenchQueenAs a new member, I have to agree with you, as i was warned before joining this site. don't think I'll be a subscriber. That said, why is your one "harmless" post, that you claim have all been removed, about his mother still on the forums? Seems like you benefitted from the biased mod's decisions...how can you make such a reference about someone's mom? Do you have any self-respect? Does anyone here have any self-respect...I'm beginning to feel like puking...
Thanks for the advice but I'm quitting this site very shortly anyway. I couldn't care less. I'm disgusted with the Mods' judgements, they've in the past allowed some posts to remain which I and many others thought should have been removed.
Many people have seen Chancre's PM to me today and I'm pleased about that 😏
Edit: I can't see anywhere in the ...[text shortened]... Mods, yet nothing's been done about him, but my harmless posts were quickly removed!
09 Nov 06
Ummm, back to the discussion. I'm actually curious as to widespread opinion. I've always felt that abortion is killing, but while in an ideal world no one would kill anyone else, exceptions are made because we live in an imperfect society. For example killing in self-defense is considered justified, killing someone who breaks into your house at night, in war killing the enemy, and while some would disagree we also allow the killing/murder of prisoners on death row. The line we as a society draw is not did we kill something (I mean you can kill a fish), but are we going to call that murder? And what actions are we going to take as a result? 😳
09 Nov 06
Originally posted by DoctorDaraI think the key issue that people in this debate often forget or minimise is that abortion involves two lifeforms (I hat using the term baby for a foetus so I'll use this more generic term).
Ummm, back to the discussion. I'm actually curious as to widespread opinion. I've always felt that abortion is killing, but while in an ideal world no one would kill anyone else, exceptions are made because we live in an imperfect society. For example killing in self-defense is considered justified, killing someone who breaks into your house at night, in ...[text shortened]... ), but are we going to call that murder? And what actions are we going to take as a result? 😳
There's the foetus, and there's the mother.
Now the mother is a living breathing human being, already a part of a society. Already contributing in some way.
The foetus is not. It might grow to become one, but as yet it's not - only a parasite living off the nutrients it can get from the mother.
If, for whatever reason - rape, incestual impregnation, psychological problems, absolute poverty, drug abuse, etc. - the mother decides she is unable or unwilling to attempt to raise a child, then she has to be given the balance of this argument.
She's a proven human.
The foetus is not.
I also think, despite being a male myself, that it's time that men get off this debate and leave it to women to decide for themselves. We don't have to carry the foetus for 9 months (and having watched my wife do it twice - thank God for that!)
Obviously we have an important say in the development of our children, but at the expense of an existing life?
No, the mother has to make that decision.
09 Nov 06
Originally posted by amannionAbsolutely correct.
I think the key issue that people in this debate often forget or minimise is that abortion involves two lifeforms (I hat using the term baby for a foetus so I'll use this more generic term).
There's the foetus, and there's the mother.
Now the mother is a living breathing human being, already a part of a society. Already contributing in some way.
The foet ...[text shortened]... ldren, but at the expense of an existing life?
No, the mother has to make that decision.
In the example the previous poster gave, the fish is an independent entity in much the same way as the pregnant woman. The foetus is not independent and thus has no rights under any rational set of morals.
09 Nov 06
I also think, despite being a male myself, that it's time that men get off this debate and leave it to women to decide for themselves. We don't have to carry the foetus for 9 months (and having watched my wife do it twice - thank God for that!)I agree 100%
Obviously we have an important say in the development of our children, but at the expense of an existing life?
No, the mother has to make that decision.[/b]
Whenever this debate topic comes up, it seems as though the rabid anti-abortionists are always men. I think this is because most women realise that even if they don't practise unsafe sex there is a chance they could get pregnant somehow (faulty birth control, rape, etc.). No woman wants to be in the position of being forced to carry a child she doesn't want. Therefore, women tend to take the "every woman should decide for herself" appraoch.
09 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by whiteroseThen you must agree that every father would also have the right to leave every child to be taken care by the mother without any further responsibilities.
I agree 100%
Whenever this debate topic comes up, it seems as though the rabid anti-abortionists are always men. I think this is because most women realise that even if they don't practise unsafe sex there is a chance they could get pregnant somehow (faulty birth control, rape, etc.). No woman wants to be in the position of being forced to carry a child s ...[text shortened]... 't want. Therefore, women tend to take the "every woman should decide for herself" appraoch.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by DoctorDaraUhhh....whaaaaat? 🙄
Ummm, back to the discussion. I'm actually curious as to widespread opinion. I've always felt that abortion is killing, but while in an ideal world no one would kill anyone else, exceptions are made because we live in an imperfect society. For example killing in self-defense is considered justified, killing someone who breaks into your house at night, in ...[text shortened]... ), but are we going to call that murder? And what actions are we going to take as a result? 😳
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by PalynkaThis is a non-sequitor.
Then you must agree that every father would also have the right to leave every child to be taken care by the mother without any further responsibilities.
Once the foetus has been born it becomes a child and a responsibility of the parents.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by OlbloodandgutsNo, he doesn't make sense (see my above post).
Hey, you finally made some sense....you get a rec...
Jeez, OlBloodAndGuts, your complete lack of logic and anti abortionist stance reminds me of another moron who used to frequent this site....his name was...Chancymoronic...oh...NancyBoyLovesDim..errr....never mind....I've forgotten him/her already!
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by howardgeeSo why can't the father insist that the mother either has an abortion or signs a waiver absolving him of any responsibility for the child?
This is a non-sequitor.
Once the foetus has been born it becomes a child and a responsibility of the parents.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by amannionThis I agree with. However, it should be noted that the pro-fetus-killing side (is this better than pro-choice or pro-abortion?) are doing exactly that. They are letting the woman decide if she wants to have an abortion. There isn't a group out there telling people that they should all have abortions (apart from that crazy world population group I forget the name of).
I also think, despite being a male myself, that it's time that men get off this debate and leave it to women to decide for themselves. We don't have to carry the foetus for 9 months (and having watched my wife do it twice - thank God for that!)
Obviously we have an important say in the development of our children, but at the expense of an existing life?
No, the mother has to make that decision.
So one side wants to give women the choice so they can make up their own mind. The other wants to give woman no choice at all.
I know which one makes the most sense to me.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by Ian68But this is a separate issue from Palynka's claim.
So why can't the father insist that the mother either has an abortion or signs a waiver absolving him of any responsibility for the child?
He was talking about the father leaving the CHILD to be looked after by the mother which implies that it has already been born.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by howardgeeSo are you agreeing that it should be acceptable for such a contract to be drawn up before a child has been born?
But this is a separate issue from Palynka's claim.
He was talking about the father leaving the CHILD to be looked after by the mother which implies that it has already been born.
10 Nov 06
Originally posted by Ian68No.
So are you agreeing that it should be acceptable for such a contract to be drawn up before a child has been born?
The father-to-be can try to persuade the pregant woman to have an abortion.
If she wants to have the child then it becomes partly his responsibility.
Tough luck guys, that's just the way it is...choose your sexual partners carefully!