23 Mar 23
1 edit
@wildgrass saidHad to remove that as it was as convoluted as some of your posts, all over the place, We ask simpler questions, to the point, than do you angry men.
Punish the rich? Is that how it works? If you create jobs by spending money to employ Mr Herbie then it's not your wealth anymore and it wouldn't be subject to a wealth tax.
Are we punishing workers with income tax?
Are we punishing homeowners with property taxes?
If so, then let's do less punishing of those working people. Wealth in America can shoulder more of th ...[text shortened]... t demographic.
(By the way I don't think taxes are punishment, just going with your analogy here)
What idea do you have to reduce tax burden to middle class families, keeping in mind the top 1% pay 50% of the taxes, and 50% of Americans pay no taxes at all.
Can you just answer this? Geez
PS: I must have not been clear. You want to punish their success. That is different.
As to income tax and property tax being punishments (!?!?!?)?....., those taxes bring benefits back to the payers thereof. Wealth tax does not. See how simple?
You are getting as bad a Marauder.
@averagejoe1 said
Had to remove that as it was as convoluted as some of your posts, all over the place, We ask simpler questions, to the point, than do you angry men.
What idea do you have to reduce tax burden to middle class families, keeping in mind the top 1% pay 50% of the taxes, and 50% of Americans pay no taxes at all.
Can you just answer this? Geez
PS: I must have ...[text shortened]... to the payers thereof. Wealth tax does not. See how simple?
You are getting as bad a Marauder.
See how simple?
If I work hard and get a raise, then my taxes go up. By your definition, since I do not get any added benefits from the government, is that a punishment for my hard work?
If I spend my money to renovate my house, then my taxes go up. By your definition, since I don't get any benefit added to existing ones from the government, is that a punishment for my investment in my house?
If I spend my money to invest in a stock, my taxes do not go up. They stay the same in perpetuity and I only have to pay for the 1 year that I sell the stock. A billionaire who owns his own company, like Bezos or Zuck, can delay all the taxes on their wealth. Why not tax that like other property? For the average middle class American, this is a huge, huge disadvantage, as they are dumping hundreds of thousands to the government over a decade that the wealthy can instead use to buy more stuff.
A wealth tax would be like a property tax on all assets. It is fairer to property owners. It would incentivize productive uses of wealth, as you have suggested in earlier posts about hiring yacht builder people or investing your money in the community. Unless you are worth tens of millions, you would not need to worry about it, and your property taxes would go down. It is not a punishment. Rich people would have the choice of whether to hoard their money or spend it.
24 Mar 23
1 edit
@averagejoe1 said
Had to remove that as it was as convoluted as some of your posts, all over the place, We ask simpler questions, to the point, than do you angry men.
What idea do you have to reduce tax burden to middle class families, keeping in mind the top 1% pay 50% of the taxes, and 50% of Americans pay no taxes at all.
Can you just answer this? Geez
PS: I must have ...[text shortened]... to the payers thereof. Wealth tax does not. See how simple?
You are getting as bad a Marauder.
keeping in mind the top 1% pay 50% of the taxes, and 50% of Americans pay no taxes at all.
As I mentioned to Earl, this statistic is top 1% of earners, like income, so of course they pay the most taxes. But these are the suckers who actually work for a living. The wealthy are not on this list of 1%-ers.
Zuck, Bezos, Musk, Buffett, Koch all pay less than 2% tax on income. The rest of us pay 10-32%, and the losers and suckers on your list pay 37%.
24 Mar 23
2 edits
@wildgrass saidIf you get a raise, your larger income will trigger an increase in the percentage of tax you must pay. Say, 22% until the raise, and of course you move to higher bracket 28% with the raise. That is not punitive or punishment for hard work.See how simple?
If I work hard and get a raise, then my taxes go up. By your definition, since I do not get any added benefits from the government, is that a punishment for my hard work?
If I spend my money to renovate my house, then my taxes go up. By your definition, since I don't get any benefit added to existing ones from the government, is that a pu ...[text shortened]... is not a punishment. Rich people would have the choice of whether to hoard their money or spend it.
If you increase value of house, it will have tax amount adjusted based on its new value. You ‘chose’ to increase value and incur more tax. You almost taxed yourself! No punishment there.
If Bezos delays taxes, he owes no taxes if he does not access the money. Are you saying he should pay tax on unrealized gain? Sure you are. A liberal through and through. Gimme it!
I structure my finances to avoid as much tax as I can get away with. Tax free bonds, municipal, whatever, …are you saying you want me to pay tax that is not required? Bezos should as well? Looks like punishment to me. This is why I keep saying leave us the hell alone.
But you want a NEW law saying for me to pay ‘wealth’ tax on money just sitting somewhere? Punishing my success, don’t you see. If I earn $5M and pay tax on it, you want me to pay a tax on it AGAIN, is that right? Punitive , and punishing, Wildgrass.
Your last para,,,,,Rich people ALREADY have a choice to hoard money or to spend it. Come down to earth Wildgrass.
And tell us how a wealth tax would be “fairer to property owners”. I have no idea what that means. It appears that for a citizen to be treated “fairly”, a rich guy must be treated unfairly?.??? And don’t get your incentivize point either. Appears to be bit of govt control, your socialistic side is showing. Make them pay, or suffer consequences. Brrrrrrr
If I make a whole lot of money, you think that I am in a category to submit myself to the govt. to be punished,,,,for my success.
My wife has a valuable emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring? Each year? Ohhhhh, Wildgrass.
24 Mar 23
@averagejoe1 said
If you get a raise, your larger income will trigger an increase in the percentage of tax you must pay. Say, 22% until the raise, and of course you move to higher bracket 28% with the raise. That is not punitive or punishment for hard work.
If you increase value of house, it will have tax amount adjusted based on its new value. You ‘chose’ to increase value and incur m ...[text shortened]... emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring? Each year? Ohhhhh, Wildgrass.
Say, 22% until the raise, and of course you move to higher bracket 28% with the raise. That is not punitive or punishment for hard work.
You state it is not, but by your own standard it is punitive. A disincentive to work.
@averagejoe1 said
If you get a raise, your larger income will trigger an increase in the percentage of tax you must pay. Say, 22% until the raise, and of course you move to higher bracket 28% with the raise. That is not punitive or punishment for hard work.
If you increase value of house, it will have tax amount adjusted based on its new value. You ‘chose’ to increase value and incur m ...[text shortened]... emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring? Each year? Ohhhhh, Wildgrass.
My wife has a valuable emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring?
Yet this is what we do with homes. You're fine with it?
24 Mar 23
@averagejoe1 said
If you get a raise, your larger income will trigger an increase in the percentage of tax you must pay. Say, 22% until the raise, and of course you move to higher bracket 28% with the raise. That is not punitive or punishment for hard work.
If you increase value of house, it will have tax amount adjusted based on its new value. You ‘chose’ to increase value and incur m ...[text shortened]... emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring? Each year? Ohhhhh, Wildgrass.
Rich people ALREADY have a choice to hoard money or to spend it. Come down to earth Wildgrass.
And tell us how a wealth tax would be “fairer to property owners”. I have no idea what that means. It appears that for a citizen to be treated “fairly”, a rich guy must be treated unfairly?.??? And don’t get your incentivize point either. Appears to be bit of govt control, your socialistic side is showing. Make them pay, or suffer consequences. Brrrrrrr
Please re-read what I wrote. It was written very clearly. You're wildly misinterpreting it. Socialism is not at all related to this conversation.
24 Mar 23
@wildgrass saidGoodness, I thought we were speaking of a wealth tax. A tax on a home is a property tax, pays for roads, schools and the like. I think your wealth tax will be taken and distributed among people who want money. The Obama gambit, 'we will transform America'.My wife has a valuable emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring?
Yet this is what we do with homes. You're fine with it?
How bout you separate the two.
If I take all my billions and buy billions worth of emeralds and put them in a shoebox in the kitchen, will you send your gestapo guys from the government to see what I have worked so hard for? Will any losers get some of the money raised by the wealth tax? Why dont y'all answer straight out.
24 Mar 23
@wildgrass saidOK....then maybe I should have called it Collectivism, since you are collecting money from people who have it, and giving it to people who don't. Is this written clearly enough? If you don't want to all it socialism, call it what it is....Marxism.
[quote]Rich people ALREADY have a choice to hoard money or to spend it. Come down to earth Wildgrass.
And tell us how a wealth tax would be “fairer to property owners”. I have no idea what that means. It appears that for a citizen to be treated “fairly”, a rich guy must be treated unfairly?.??? And don’t get your incentivize point either. Appears to be bit of govt control, ...[text shortened]... ery clearly. You're wildly misinterpreting it. Socialism is not at all related to this conversation.
He said very eloquently, but I paraphrase.."You people who have money, give it to people who don't".
You and Marauder and Kev are digging holes this week.
24 Mar 23
If I take all my billions and buy billions worth of emeralds and put them in a shoebox in the kitchen, will you send your gestapo guys from the government to see what I have worked so hard for? Will any losers get some of the money raised by the wealth tax? Why dont y'all answer straight out.I'll answer this for you. Yes, they can put a wealth tax on anything. Have you read how difficult valuation can be? If you have a pair of original boxed 1985 Air Jordan's in your attic and they find out about it, they can tax you on its present value. Just make you pay that tax while it sits in your dust attic.
I am trying to encourage y'all to see what can happen. Of course the rich, on paper, leave the country. It happened in France.
More importantly, we all know if they do it to the rich (over $100B I think), there will not be enough money. Know that they will widen the net, and be at your door, soon.
Can you libs not see that they (yeah, I know, I don't know who 'they' are either) in the end want to own all of our stuff.
They will. They will win.
My recommendation is to remove property tax from primary residence and increase it on investment properties.
I wouldn’t tax your box of emeralds or gold doubloons either. Adam Smith pointed out that these things are of no practical value and can be hoarded without affecting others. But hoarding warehouses of food, portfolios of land owned in various places, or other real wealth is damaging to the economy and so such things should be heavily taxed. This includes dollars because money is needed to lubricate the economy by law. See on the dollar bill where it says “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private?” People need access to money while they don’t need access to emeralds.
EDIT - Scrooge McDuck can keep his mansion and swimming pool of gold coins tax free but tax his income sources heavily
24 Mar 23
@athousandyoung saidThanks for your points, these are thread-worthy points, each separate unto itself.
My recommendation is to remove property tax from primary residence and increase it on investment properties.
I wouldn’t tax your box of emeralds or gold doubloons either. Adam Smith pointed out that these things are of no practical value and can be hoarded without affecting others. But hoarding warehouses of food, portfolios of land owned in various places, or oth ...[text shortened]... uck can keep his mansion and swimming pool of gold coins tax free but tax his income sources heavily
But I have got to tell all y'all, the rich are not stupid. They will send their wealth overseas. And they will simply find places to park their extra money so it simply will not qualify. Idiots like Eliz Warren have no idea about this can of worms.
I could buy a whole lot of tax free bonds, live on the tax-free interest and never pay any tax. That is somelike what Buffet does. They are smarter than that. This will die away.
24 Mar 23
@averagejoe1 saidIf this gets you to invest in the State by buying bonds then great!
Thanks for your points, these are thread-worthy points, each separate unto itself.
But I have got to tell all y'all, the rich are not stupid. They will send their wealth overseas. And they will simply find places to park their extra money so it simply will not qualify. Idiots like Eliz Warren have no idea about this can of worms.
I could buy a whole lot of t ...[text shortened]... r pay any tax. That is somelike what Buffet does. They are smarter than that. This will die away.
24 Mar 23
@athousandyoung saidGreat point. Everyone just step back and watch people like Buffet invest and re-invest!!! You may come over to our side anytime. If you let people like Eliz Warren start meddling with supply and demand and everything that comes after it.....you will see the money that has always gone to bonds be pulled out and sent to another country.
If this gets you to invest in the State by buying bonds then great!
Hey, brings to mind, where does Biden invest alllllllllllllll that money ?
@averagejoe1 said
If you get a raise, your larger income will trigger an increase in the percentage of tax you must pay. Say, 22% until the raise, and of course you move to higher bracket 28% with the raise. That is not punitive or punishment for hard work.
If you increase value of house, it will have tax amount adjusted based on its new value. You ‘chose’ to increase value and incur m ...[text shortened]... emerald. That is part of our wealth. Are you going to tax her ring? Each year? Ohhhhh, Wildgrass.
If Bezos delays taxes, he owes no taxes if he does not access the money. Are you saying he should pay tax on unrealized gain?
This is exactly how property taxes work. Value goes up, and the yearly bill to government goes up. Maybe I don't realize those gains for 30 years, but I still pay taxes every dang year on it. And yet you like property taxes, even if I don't use the roads or the schools, I pay.
In a state like Texas, the average homeowner pays $136,000 in taxes on their home during a mortgage period. Jeff Bezos can go and invest in another business or whatever, but your homeowner cannot. I don't think property should be punished (your words) by government, while other investments are not.