Is Michael Moore good for America?

Originally posted by Phelim
Michel Moore is all about accountability, holding the executive etc accountable for their actions, that is what democracy thrives on. 3/4 truths or not its about displaying opinions, circumstances etc that need answered

If he's all about accountability then he should be held accountable for all his lies and misrepresentations.

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
If he's all about accountability then he should be held accountable for all his lies and misrepresentations.

Such as?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Such as?

Pretty much everything he's ever done. If it needs to be pointed out to you, then you've been walking around in your sleep for the past ten years. Wake up. Anyone can make a mistake, but when a documentary maker constantly uses false information and intentionally deceptive images to create a fictional picture of events, it's no mistake. Mike Moore is the worst sort of liar.

You asked for an example, I'll give you one, you can find the rest for yourself. His first effort, Roger & Me. That’s the flick in which he features himself in a fruitless pursuit of GM boss Roger Smith. In truth, Mr. Smith had already granted a thoughtful interview to Michael Moore on camera. Moore chose to conceal that film footage from the ticket-buying public, pretending all the while that Roger Smith was evading him. Nothing Moore does can be believed. Nothing.

Originally posted by invigorate
What a guy! What a gut!

He is very good at mixing a bunch of 3/4 truths into a compelling argument.

His arguements couldn't be more onesided if he were to sit on see-saw.

Tony Benn is brilliant in Sicko. But although MM is funny, I have a feeling the US Tourist board can't be too pleased with him.

No, the USTB can't be very happy, and neither can Fox News. That doesn't mean I'm not. 😏 MM to the end!!

Sorry if this conflicts with you beliefs or values.

Originally posted by SMSBear716
Actually, he uses about 1/4 truths. But like Al Franken, he is a darling of the far left, the Blame America First crowd, MoveOn.org types.

My question is when is he going to sell his Halliburton stock, doesn't he know those people are evil.. well he preaches it out one side of his mouth while collecting stock dividends with the other.

If he hasn't sold it already, he's about as good an investor as he is a reporter.

Originally posted by spruce112358
Please. Do you think the WHO has an investigative arm?

The WHO uses whatever statistics are provided to it by the country's ministry of health: "The data available on this web site comprise deaths registered in national vital registration systems, with underlying cause of death as coded by the relevant national authority."

You would not long be Castro's health minister if statistics showed any lower health quality than the US.

You are right to question the reliability of the WHO's statistics. However, according to the WHO, cause of death stats from the US and Cuba are thought to be of high quality. China is a different story; not to mention most of Africa and southeast Asia.

http://www.who.int/research/en/
http://www.who.int/research/cod_info_quality_20071005.pdf

Regardless, my suspicion is that, even if accurate the stats are still misleading, and surely the MM movie (along with the Hannity expose) provides a distorted view of Cuban health care.

But y'all are forgetting one thing: what makes the WHO stats sting so much is that the US is a wealthy industrialized democracy with a Per capita GDP over 10 times that of Cuba.

This chart compares that US/Canada/Cuba stats from 2004 and includes GDP (not a great source, I know, but the chart is copy pasted from the WHO):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gailontheweb/341860281/

Originally posted by invigorate

He is very good at mixing a bunch of 3/4 truths into a compelling argument.

I forget, were we talking about Moore or P Bush?

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
If he's all about accountability then he should be held accountable for all his lies and misrepresentations.

Again, are we talking about Moore or Bush?

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
Nothing Moore does can be believed. Nothing.

I should point out that Moore's filmaking technique is not to have the viewer believe every single point and in fact it is solely designed to counter the half truths spewed forth by the Republicans. Moore basically is saying to the Republicans, hey look what happens to the truth when a Democrat twists things to his own preference. The guy was using the Republican technique against them. The irony was lost (or ignored) by US mass media but was picked up by most media outlets outside the US.

The point here was that Moore's movies are supposed to challenge the viewer to go and find out the truth for themselves...to investigate and question, rather than simply take whatever garbage is spewed out of their television sets or in the newspaper. US citizens in particular almost never question their government's decisions or motivations for fear of being labelled "un-american".

By having people expose the distortions in his movies of the facts about life in America, Moore has brought the issues into the public conciousness for real debate. For decades, Americans were loathe to engage in this type of debate and Democrats have felt that this disengagment from real issues was the main reason for Republican victories come election time. The Democrats knew that by presenting an issue like health care was boring but to do it in a movie setting would generate debate...it would be even better if the movie contained distortions that required explantions. It was only through these explanations of the distortions of complex issues that you could engage the average american in real issues.

The hope here was that by exposing the flaws in Moores films Americans would also expose the flaws in their current system and demand change.

It was a brilliant strategy if you ask me. Look at the subjects Moore has done and decide for yourself.

Loss of American jobs to 3rd world countries
Gun control
US foreign policy
Health Care

These are all issues that the Republicans have not handled well over the last 30 years.

Moore has re-kindled that American spirit that used to challenge the status quo and demand solutions to complex problems. Some still prefer to bury their heads in the sand as evidenced by previous posts but the times they are a changin....

In time Moore will be understood as the true Machiavellian that he is....The ends do justify the means, sometimes.

Originally posted by uzless
I should point out that Moore's filmaking technique is not to have the viewer believe every single point and in fact it is solely designed to counter the half truths spewed forth by the Republicans.

...In time Moore will be understood as the true Machiavellian that he is....The ends do justify the means, sometimes.

I agree with your understanding of Moore. But i would add that another thing he does very well is to put a human face on complcated social issues. It might be the case that, in order to show the human side of an issue like health care, you will have no choice but to distort the facts.

Think of it this way: MOST Americans have access to affordable quality health care. But how could you tell the story of those 40 Million+ people who don't have insurance (and the people who do have insurance but get screwed) without making the entire healthcare system look bad. Even if most people are doing well under the system, an honest look at those who are doing poorly will evoke an emotional response. That is, It will be more propoganda than logic. This is what happens when you treat people as people instead of numbers.