Is prosperity evil?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I'm not a "critic of capitalism" and I don't think anyone who ever glanced at an economics book thinks that sellers ask the "highest possible price" (by definition, such a price is infinite). And for that matter, the same people don't believe that sellers will make sure that everyone can afford their product to maximize their profits. If you have a prod ...[text shortened]... (i.e. almost every product in existence) that I'm truly baffled you would deny their existence.

Strawman alert. The highest possible price is not infinite. Even the richest person will have a limit on what he might spend for a given product. That's why auctions are held for rare things such as works of art. One person may pay the maximum price, and there aren't any duplicates to offer.

No one ever said that producers would endeavor to make their products affordable to "everyone". Clearly, some products will not even appeal to "everyone". After development costs are amortized, prices generally drop to include as many consumers as possible in the lower echelons of wealth.

"A rational seller will try to maximize profits by finding a balance between the amount of people buying their product and the amount of money they are willing to pay."

Yes, but as those in upper echelons are exhausted, it is necessary to appeal to anyone at all who may possibly desire the product or service. Lower cost imitations further cause price deflation. The best place to observe this is in personal computers and telecommunications devices.

Originally posted by normbenign
Strawman alert. The highest possible price is not infinite. Even the richest person will have a limit on what he might spend for a given product. That's why auctions are held for rare things such as works of art. One person may pay the maximum price, and there aren't any duplicates to offer.

No one ever said that producers would endeavor to make th ...[text shortened]... lation. The best place to observe this is in personal computers and telecommunications devices.

The highest possible price is infinite. I have a q-tip here that I am willing to sell to you for infinity dollars. See what I just did?

Your ignorance of basic economics is noted, but producers generally do not strive to maximize sales, they strive to maximize profits (that is, if they were to act rationally). They are not one and the same.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

That is actually only a minor problem. The really big problem is that most of the wealth never makes it to Africa at all. This is because Western nations and companies wield so much power that they can essentially rob Africa of its resources.
It is true that 'privileged Africans' are used to enable this system, but the prime beneficiaries are not Africans, but Westerners.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The highest possible price is infinite. I have a q-tip here that I am willing to sell to you for infinity dollars. See what I just did?

Your ignorance of basic economics is noted, but producers generally do not strive to maximize sales, they strive to maximize profits (that is, if they were to act rationally). They are not one and the same.

"The highest possible price is infinite. I have a q-tip here that I am willing to sell to you for infinity dollars. See what I just did?"

you are missing the point. infinity dollars is not achievable. nor is 1 million dollars for a piece of gum.


you cannot set the price as high as you want. let's just move past the technicality that is your infinity dollars price. that is not a price, it is practically a declaration you don't want to sell your qtip.

prices will stabilize according to offer and demand until the highest possible price is achieved.

"producers generally do not strive to maximize sales, they strive to maximize profits "
i think that is what he is really trying to say

Originally posted by normbenign
Strawman alert. The highest possible price is not infinite. Even the richest person will have a limit on what he might spend for a given product. That's why auctions are held for rare things such as works of art. One person may pay the maximum price, and there aren't any duplicates to offer.

No one ever said that producers would endeavor to make th ...[text shortened]... lation. The best place to observe this is in personal computers and telecommunications devices.

"as those in upper echelons are exhausted"
no. there are plenty of products that appeal to a certain demographic. if someone has a pink bunny that sells a lot to little girls ages 12, they might find it undesirable to ever break into other markets.

rich people will always buy yachts and ferraris. and they will pay a butload of money for it. i have not heard yet of yacht sellers trying to sell to hobos.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"The highest possible price is infinite. I have a q-tip here that I am willing to sell to you for infinity dollars. See what I just did?"

you are missing the point. infinity dollars is not achievable. nor is 1 million dollars for a piece of gum.


you cannot set the price as high as you want. let's just move past the technicality that is your infinity ...[text shortened]... ximize sales, they strive to maximize profits "
i think that is what he is really trying to say

I think both you and normbenign are missing the point. Producers can ask any price whatsoever for a product, whether or not they will actually sell any products at a said price is irrelevant.

i think that [what I said] is what he is really trying to say

If so, he is phrasing it very poorly.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The highest possible price is infinite. I have a q-tip here that I am willing to sell to you for infinity dollars. See what I just did?

Your ignorance of basic economics is noted, but producers generally do not strive to maximize sales, they strive to maximize profits (that is, if they were to act rationally). They are not one and the same.

Since I can buy 350 q tips for a dollar, how is infinity reasonable? You may compete with the other seller, by: 1. making better q tips or 2. by giving me more for my dollar, say 400.

I'm sorry, but your notation of ignorance of basic economics means absolutely nothing. You aren't a major in economics, and by most of your posts, you are ideologically opposed to market forces (economics based on human actions). Your notions of economics are always favoring dictating buying decisions by some higher authority.

Of course sales and profits are different. You really thought that I spent in excess of 40 years in sales and marketing without knowing that? On the other hand, one leads to the other, so they are linked, and the proper mix maximizes profits.

When a brand new gizmo hits the market, producers make big profits from consumers who will pay nearly infinity to have the latest. When these run out, sales will stop unless appeal is made to the mass market, so prices tend to drop rather quickly to increase both sales and profits. At some point, prices stabilize until a replacement gizmo arrives, making the old one obsolete, and causing another reduction of prices to liquidate inventory.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
"as those in upper echelons are exhausted"
no. there are plenty of products that appeal to a certain demographic. if someone has a pink bunny that sells a lot to little girls ages 12, they might find it undesirable to ever break into other markets.

rich people will always buy yachts and ferraris. and they will pay a butload of money for it. i have not heard yet of yacht sellers trying to sell to hobos.

Targeting the very rich is a specific market, and even the yachts and expensive cars find after markets where they are sold used for a fraction of their original price.

Nobody sells anything to hobos, other than cheap wine.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I think both you and normbenign are missing the point. Producers can ask any price whatsoever for a product, whether or not they will actually sell any products at a said price is irrelevant.

[b]i think that [what I said] is what he is really trying to say

If so, he is phrasing it very poorly.[/b]

whether or not they will actually sell any products at a said price is irrelevant.

i don't believe it is. this basically says that practically, we cannot set any price we want, and be economically viable. if you ask for infinity dollars for a product you might as well set it on fire, throw it in the ocean, and it would be the same outcome.


you can ask for infinity dollars, you can ask for blowjobs from famous actresses, you can ask for dragon rides in exchange for your products. how is this point productive to our discussion?


"If so, he is phrasing it very poorly."
read his posts more thoroughly and i tend to agree with this.

Originally posted by normbenign
Targeting the very rich is a specific market, and even the yachts and expensive cars find after markets where they are sold used for a fraction of their original price.

Nobody sells anything to hobos, other than cheap wine.

and nobody sells cheap wine to rich people.

the point i am trying to make is that you don't need to have a high volume of sales to maximize profits.

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is actually only a minor problem. The really big problem is that most of the wealth never makes it to Africa at all. This is because Western nations and companies wield so much power that they can essentially rob Africa of its resources.
It is true that 'privileged Africans' are used to enable this system, but the prime beneficiaries are not Africans, but Westerners.

Money is not wealth. I see a common theme from Africans and that is overvaluing money. Africa exports wealth. When starvation is brought up it seems all Africans focus on is making sure farmers get paid. You resent it when the US feeds starving Africans because then food prices drop. It's a strange way to look at the world from my perspective.

Originally posted by normbenign
Since I can buy 350 q tips for a dollar, how is infinity reasonable? You may compete with the other seller, by: 1. making better q tips or 2. by giving me more for my dollar, say 400.

I'm sorry, but your notation of ignorance of basic economics means absolutely nothing. You aren't a major in economics, and by most of your posts, you are ideologically ...[text shortened]... es, making the old one obsolete, and causing another reduction of prices to liquidate inventory.

If you understand the difference between sales and profits, then what did you mean by: "[...] After development costs are amortized, prices generally drop to include as many consumers as possible in the lower echelons of wealth."

This is not, in general, true for a producer aiming to maximize profits. An example. Let's say I have a widget factory. It costs me $1 to produce a widget. I can sell one million widgets for $1.20 each. If I reduce the price of my widgets to $1.10, I can sell 1.5 million of them. How do I maximize my profits, and will I reach "as many consumers as possible" by doing so?

By the way, I'm not "ideologically opposed to market forces." What does that even mean?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
whether or not they will actually sell any products at a said price is irrelevant.

i don't believe it is. this basically says that practically, we cannot set any price we want, and be economically viable. if you ask for infinity dollars for a product you might as well set it on fire, throw it in the ocean, and it would be the same outcome.


you can ...[text shortened]... he is phrasing it very poorly."
read his posts more thoroughly and i tend to agree with this.

Indeed, I can ask any price I want, regardless of whether anyone will pay it. Hence, the highest possible price is infinite. I don't understand why we need to discuss this.