05 Jan 07
Originally posted by SeitseI think the words 'also', 'possibility' and 'ever' suggest that this wasn't the purpose of the procedure.
The parents expressly said it was to avoid conception. Maybe not
the primary, maybe yes, but a reason anyway.
In either case, they weren't doing it for anything to do with eugenics, and to suggest that they are like Mengele is just obscene.
There is enough eugenics & racism in the world without people inventing it where it doesn't exist.
05 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RedmikeSo you're interested in semantics, uh?
I think the words 'also', 'possibility' and 'ever' suggest that this wasn't the purpose of the procedure.
In either case, they weren't doing it for anything to do with eugenics, and to suggest that they are like Mengele is just obscene.
There is enough eugenics & racism in the world without people inventing it where it doesn't exist.
Well, the fact that it "sounds" like Eugenics and Mengele suggests
that there is no accusation but a resemblance. I don't know how good
your brain works, but I hope you can distinguish between a
resemblance and a straight accusation.
Eugenics involves operations on humans to alter their state and
Mengele did it. Period.
There is enough stupidity in the world to fuel it with your paranoia.
Edit. And this is it for me with you, Mike. You always twist things, you
are biased, and you speak as if you were the holder of the truth even
when you misinterpret things.
You are just a pest. I am sorry to disapoint you but I won't discuss
with a person that misunderstands everything.
05 Jan 07
Originally posted by SeitseBut that doesn't mean that every such operation is done so because of eugenics, does it?
Eugenics involves operations on humans to alter their state and
Mengele did it. Period.
Or are you claiming that every hysterectomy, for example, is done because of eugenics?
05 Jan 07
Originally posted by RedmikePfff, Mike, I give up with you, really. That's what I'm trying to say.
But that doesn't mean that every such operation is done so because of eugenics, does it?
Or are you claiming that every hysterectomy, for example, is done because of eugenics?
The reasons are different but the process is resemblant: Altering
someone's body (including the reproductive part) for other reasons
than health and cosmetics.
05 Jan 07
Originally posted by SeitseYou're clutching at straws now.
Pfff, Mike, I give up with you, really. That's what I'm trying to say.
The reasons are different but the process is resemblant: Altering
someone's body (including the reproductive part) for other reasons
than health and cosmetics.
Having a process similar to something done in the name of eugenics makes the process like (resemblant?) eugenics?
Therefore you can compare the people seeking the process to Mengele?
Even by your wacky standards, this is off the scale.
05 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RedmikeNope.
You're clutching at straws now.
Having a process similar to something done in the name of eugenics makes the process like (resemblant?) eugenics?
Therefore you can compare the people seeking the process to Mengele?
Even by your wacky standards, this is off the scale.
The processes on the girl had, amongst other reasons, to avoid
conception. Mengele's ultimate goals were to avoid offspring of
lesser people; since the goals of the parents are not those,
the action can only be resemblant, although the process is
the same.
My twisted standards? lol
Funny how people that think different from you are wacky.
Tell me: Do you dream of a totalitarian Stalin-like state in which
everybody thinks uniform (or pretends to do so)?
05 Jan 07
Originally posted by SeitseThe actions of the parents, however misguided, were nothing to do with eugenics.
Nope.
The processes on the girl had, amongst other reasons, to avoid
conception. Mengele's ultimate goals were to avoid offspring of
lesser people; since the goals of the parents are not those,
the action can only be [b]resemblant, although the process is
the same.
My twisted standards? lol
Funny how people that think different from yo ...[text shortened]... of a totalitarian Stalin-like state in which
everybody thinks uniform (or pretends to do so)?[/b]
The operation was similar to what might be done in the name of eugenics, but that's where the comparison ends.
Yet that's enough for you to start talking about the parents being like Mengele.
Squirm all you want about 'resemblant', but you're busted, again.
05 Jan 07
1 edit
Originally posted by RedmikeBusted? Who do you think you are, fool?
The actions of the parents, however misguided, were nothing to do with eugenics.
The operation was similar to what might be done in the name of eugenics, but that's where the comparison ends.
Yet that's enough for you to start talking about the parents being like Mengele.
Squirm all you want about 'resemblant', but you're busted, again.
That's what I needed, an old grumpy loser who cannot win a
single election in his failed political career, and who spread
socialism through RHP (lol), to come and nag me.
Bah.
Edit, You need a life, Mike, a wife and kids to hace something to do
besides twisting people's arguments and speaking like a deity you
are far from. I won't waste my time on you anymore.
Loser.
Go and keep losing elections, grandpa.
05 Jan 07
Originally posted by Pawn QweenThis post made the most sense to me.
I have a friend with a disabled daughter, aged 23, she has not had these treatments. My friend has had to have hoists and pulleys etc installed and her garage converted into a bathroom extension. The daughter has extreme mood changes and severe pms - and has done since age 9!
I can see the parents side of the disabled girl you speak of, be it right or ...[text shortened]... tion ourselves we do not know what we would do. It's too easy to sit on the outside and judge.
I really don't know what i'd do if put in the situation this couple faces.
It would be easy to make the snap decision and judge these people, but why?
Walk a mile in the man's shoes.
05 Jan 07
Originally posted by jammerThanks Jammer, I understand WHY these people did it, I just remember the old quote, "It's easy for a man to justify anything his heart truly wants." Reading through this it sounds as if the parents are trying to justify the extraordinary measures they are taking. Also, I think from a medical standpoint their reasons are crap for removing the girl's uterus. Removing the uterus and not the vagina or cervix does not prevent sexual molestation, simply a child's ability to have children. The parents are looking not to the child's interest in preventing rape, but their own in not wanting to raise their daughter's possible child. Most of the things the couple has done seems to be for them, not their child. They insist that they must care for her instead of giving her up to the state to care for their child. They admit that caring for a full-grown handicapped child would be beyond their control so instead of taking steps to say give up their child, install pulleys, or practical measures, they attack the child trying to "change it."
This post made the most sense to me.
I really don't know what i'd do if put in the situation this couple faces.
It would be easy to make the snap decision and judge these people, but why?
Walk a mile in the man's shoes.
I guess for myself I am reminded of parents who hurt their children in a bid for attention. These folks have been published in journals, started a blog, and created their own ethics committee to deal with the issue. No, I don't have to walk in their shoes. No, I have no relatives who are mentally handicapped though we all might point to uncle so and so who had a little too much punch last year at the family reunion. It doesn't make him disabled, simply because his behavior is a little past mine in terms of the family reunion. I don't like seeing parent's hurt their children. For any reason.
05 Jan 07
how about cut her hands and feet to make her more compact? how about pluggin her to a machine and have her fed intravenously because it is much more easy. what those selfish bastardish monsters did is beyond Mengele.
the parents lie, they did this to make it easier on them, not improve the quality of life for the child. with the intellect of a 3 month child, she wouldn't notice if she was 9 or 40. it would have been more decent to have her committed than do this.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by ZahlanziWould that be committed to a Romanian orphanage for better treatment? Or is that a whole other thread?
how about cut her hands and feet to make her more compact? how about pluggin her to a machine and have her fed intravenously because it is much more easy. what those selfish bastardish monsters did is beyond Mengele.
the parents lie, they did this to make it easier on them, not improve the quality of life for the child. with the intellect of a 3 month c ...[text shortened]... t notice if she was 9 or 40. it would have been more decent to have her committed than do this.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by Pawn Qweenthat's your argument about...what exactly? you read my post, thought about what to say, clicked my name and hey, he is from romania, let's pick on him on a totally despicable (and unrelated) aspect of my country. the subject is about hacking a living thing so to take better care of her. would you do this to a dog?
Would that be committed to a Romanian orphanage for better treatment? Or is that a whole other thread?
and you are right, the orphanages of my country is a different thread.
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by ZahlanziIf it means the girl can have care in her own home, from her parents and it lessens the risk of her being sexually abused, then yes, I agree they should be able to request these medical operations. I am not speaking without knowledge and experience of the difficulties of caring for a disabled girl, see previous posting on this thread. My friend's daughter has had years of discomfort each month since she was 9 years old. Her mother can no longer lift her and has to use hoist and pulleys to move her around the house and provide personal care. The daughter would be totally unable to care for a baby, and it would be a very sick man to her pregnant! So why not a hysterectomy? Never mind a dog - I'd have one myself if I could. Your term of 'hacking' is a little OTT.
that's your argument about...what exactly? you read my post, thought about what to say, clicked my name and hey, he is from romania, let's pick on him on a totally despicable (and unrelated) aspect of my country. the subject is about hacking a living thing so to take better care of her. would you do this to a dog?
and you are right, the orphanages of my country is a different thread.
Your comment about having her committed being better, that was what led to mine about orphanages - and how it is related, yes, I did click on your name and see where you were from, as I do many other profiles - that's the idea of having them!
🙂
07 Jan 07
Originally posted by Pawn QweenI clicked on yours. It seems chess isn't your main sport.
If it means the girl can have care in her own home, from her parents and it lessens the risk of her being sexually abused, then yes, I agree they should be able to request these medical operations. I am not speaking without knowledge and experience of the difficulties of caring for a disabled girl, see previous posting on this thread. My friend's daughte ...[text shortened]... e where you were from, as I do many other profiles - that's the idea of having them!
🙂