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@Suzianne One of my best friends is Ukrainian. He came to US legally when he was 20. He is now 45. He said that there was for sure a coupe caused directly from the US. He hates Zelensky and says that the whole government is been corrupt ever since. He still has family back home and just wants this war to end. All I see is escalation caused by the US while the Ukrainian people suffer. Peace should be what we are seeking, but then again there is no money for war hawks if peace prevails. I have spent countless hours listening to him talk about Ukraine, Russia and the whole region.
@boonon saidYeah let’s allow someone’s friend decide whether there was a coup or not.
@Suzianne One of my best friends is Ukrainian. He came to US legally when he was 20. He is now 45. He said that there was for sure a coupe caused directly from the US. He hates Zelensky and says that the whole government is been corrupt ever since. He still has family back home and just wants this war to end. All I see is escalation caused by the US while the Ukrainian people ...[text shortened]... ails. I have spent countless hours listening to him talk about Ukraine, Russia and the whole region.
Why can’t you people grasp what sovereignty means? It means you get to choose your government, it means you can push an aggressive colonial minded neighbour like Russia out of your body politic.
It means you can kill as many Russians as you like until they stop murdering your women and children. The US did not carry out a coup in Ukraine but Putin did year after year until the Ukrainian people rose up and drove his place men out and back to Moscow.
Your friend sounds like a pro Kremlin pig who should stop calling himself Ukrainian BTW. If he exists that is 😉
@kevcvs57 saidHis friend is Ukrainian. There was a coup in 2014 and there is no dispute about that. It is called the Maidan Revolution or the Ukrainian Revolution. Look it up.
Yeah let’s allow someone’s friend decide whether there was a coup or not.
Why can’t you people grasp what sovereignty means? It means you get to choose your government, it means you can push an aggressive colonial minded neighbour like Russia out of your body politic.
It means you can kill as many Russians as you like until they stop murdering your women and children. The ...[text shortened]... sounds like a pro Kremlin pig who should stop calling himself Ukrainian BTW. If he exists that is 😉
Move on to calling Putin a liar for saying the USA was behind it. That is the only thing left to debate. His Ukrainian friend is spot on.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/22/russias-putin-accuses-us-of-orchestrating-2014-coup-in-ukraine
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@kevcvs57 Just relaying facts from my friend. He does exist. Most ukrainians are pro- Russia. You should learn some history, he lived it. When we watch the rocky movie where he fights Drago the russian and they play the Russian national anthem my friend perks up with pride. The US has mostly caused by promising Russia we would not allow allow any western nations ( NATO ) to move Eastward towards Russia, and thats all we have been doing. You obviously are not Ukrainian and neither am I. My friend is though and he is tired of his family being pawns in the US proxy war.
@boonon said“Just relaying facts from my friend. He does exist. Most ukrainians are pro- Russia.”
@kevcvs57 Just relaying facts from my friend. He does exist. Most ukrainians are pro- Russia. You should learn some history, he lived it. When we watch the rocky movie where he fights Drago the russian and they play the Russian national anthem my friend perks up with pride. The US has mostly caused by promising Russia we would not allow allow any western nations ( NATO ) to mo ...[text shortened]... and neither am I. My friend is though and he is tired of his family being pawns in the US proxy war.
That’s such a big lie that I didn’t bother reading the rest.
What to do is go to Ukraine and start waving a Russian flag about but be sure to take your friend with you.
You should read up on current affairs
Ukraine and Russia should be very close they have so many historical and family ties.
I think you’re confusing Russia with the Putin regime that ordered the full scale invasion and is still killing their civilian population by bombardment pretty much every night.
I’m sure once the Putin regime is gone they will be natural allies again but Ukraine will not view Russia as a benign neighbour and cousin for a few generations at least.
@kevcvs57
John McCain openly supported the Maidan coup. McCain dined with opposition leaders, including members of the ultra right‐wing (Nazi) Svoboda Party, and later appeared on stage in Maidan Square during a mass rally. He stood shoulder to shoulder with Svoboda (Nazi) leader Oleg Tyagnibok.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/15/john-mccain-ukraine-protests-support-just-cause
https://www.channel4.com/news/ukraine-mccain-far-right-svoboda-anti-semitic-protests
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@kevcvs57 If i was able to get my Ukranian friend on here to tell you some history and what is happening now you would still not believe him because you have your mind made up. So how does this end besides WWIII? I am for peace and so Is my friend. What are you for? More needless bloodshed? More death? Ukraine can not defeat Russia on its own. The only option is a peace deal which The US and UK are against. Maybe you should go there and see how the people feel.
@kevcvs57 saidPerhaps his Ukrainian friend is from Eastern Ukraine.
“Just relaying facts from my friend. He does exist. Most ukrainians are pro- Russia.”
That’s such a big lie that I didn’t bother reading the rest.
What to do is go to Ukraine and start waving a Russian flag about but be sure to take your friend with you.
You should read up on current affairs
Ukraine and Russia should be very close they have so many historical and family ...[text shortened]... in but Ukraine will not view Russia as a benign neighbour and cousin for a few generations at least.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/21/whats-behind-pro-russian-attitudes-in-eastern-ukraine
From the link below:
"The leaked conversation appeared certain to embarrass the United States and seemed designed to bolster charges - from Russia, among others - that the Ukrainian opposition is being manipulated by Washington, which President Barack Obama’s administration strenuously disputes.
U.S. accusations that Russia helped publicize the taped conversation also threatened Washington’s already tense relationship with Moscow.
The audio clip, which was posted on Tuesday but gained wide circulation on Thursday, appears to show the official, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, weighing in on the make-up of the next Ukrainian government.
Nuland is heard telling U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt that she doesn’t think Vitaly Klitschko, the boxer-turned-politician who is a main opposition leader, should be in a new government.
“So I don’t think Klitsch (Klitschko) should go into the government,” she said in the recording, which appeared to describe events that occurred in late January. “I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207
So Nuland and Pyatt were deciding who would be in the government. That is not democracy. That is a puppet government installed by the US government.
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@kevcvs57 I had to reread your post again because it is so contradictory. You are making my point which my friend has stated. Again I am pro peace. It is the year 2023 and our world ( mainly the US ) still wants to blow up countries and watch people die instead of looking for peace. The UN is a joke, our current leaders in the US are a joke. All blood thirsty, money loving pieces of crap.
@kevcvs57
Boonon is right. Here is another excerpt from that Reuters article:
"In the first audio, Nuland and Pyatt are heard discussing strategies to work with the three main opposition figures: Klitschko, Arseny Yatseniuk, former Ukrainian economy minister, and Oleh Tyahnybok, the far-right nationalist opposition leader."
Far-right nationalist is the euphemism for Nazi. Nuland and Pyatt wanted to work with the Nazi, Oleh Tyahnybok. The same Nazi John McCain Stood shoulder to shoulder with making a speech supporting the Maidan coup. The USA supported a Nazi coup in Ukraine.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207
@boonon saidRussia goes back to Russia and a UN peace keeping force goes into the border areas until they can decide democratically without any risk of coercion from Kyiv or Moscow if they want to remain Ukrainian, become Russian or some middle ground like semi autonomy.
@kevcvs57 If i was able to get my Ukranian friend on here to tell you some history and what is happening now you would still not believe him because you have your mind made up. So how does this end besides WWIII? I am for peace and so Is my friend. What are you for? More needless bloodshed? More death? Ukraine can not defeat Russia on its own. The only option is a peace deal which The US and UK are against. Maybe you should go there and see how the people feel.
You talk as though this is a war whereby two states mutually declare war on each other, it’s not, it is a relatively powerful state invading a relatively powerless state in order to eradicate that state. The Ukrainians, unlike the Russians, have nowhere to go because they are already home.
BTW we have an awful lot of Ukrainian refugees here and I’ve never met one that feels the same as your imaginary friend.
You cannot debate based on the hearsay of a friend, that is never acceptable as evidence in a debate. Are you seriously claiming that the Kyiv regime at the behest of the US is holding the Ukrainian people hostage and all they really want is to welcome Putin’s army with open arms!
How stoopid do you think I am.
@boonon saidWhat is contradictory? Perhaps you mean nuanced.
@kevcvs57 I had to reread your post again because it is so contradictory. You are making my point which my friend has stated. Again I am pro peace. It is the year 2023 and our world ( mainly the US ) still wants to blow up countries and watch people die instead of looking for peace. The UN is a joke, our current leaders in the US are a joke. All blood thirsty, money loving pieces of crap.
@metal-brain saidI too support the Maidan uprising and I’m no Nazi. Putin is the Nazi. I suppose the EU are also Nazis.
@kevcvs57
Boonon is right. Here is another excerpt from that Reuters article:
"In the first audio, Nuland and Pyatt are heard discussing strategies to work with the three main opposition figures: Klitschko, Arseny Yatseniuk, former Ukrainian economy minister, and Oleh Tyahnybok, the far-right nationalist opposition leader."
Far-right nationalist is the euphemism f ...[text shortened]... -usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207
Try not to be a complete halfwitted Russian stooge.