@vivify saidI don't think it's disingenuous based on your OP. New green initiatives require building big things to replace existing old things. Building big things (solar farms, wind farms, smart grids etc) requires using lots and lots of plastics. For example, building a giant new wind farm to replace an existing nuclear power plant is a net negative for the environment, dramatically increases carbon emissions and produces tons and tons of plastic.
Well that's a bit misleading since virtually every industry has become reliant on plastics.
It's like saying initiatives to increase job growth will increase the role of plastics since nearly all places of employment use them in some capacity.
So to specifically pin an increase in plastic use on clean energy projects disingenuous...unless clean or green energy initiatives use more plastics than any other average business or industry.
Part of the reason why virtually every industry has become reliant on plastics is due to efficiency. Plastic is lightweight so cars get better gas mileage and appliances run on less electricity.
I agree with you that we should strive for less plastics overall. That's a good goal.
25 Mar 22
@mott-the-hoople saidThey can't enforce it 100% of the time, but most supermarkets comply. I live in New York and, while some supermarkets simply ignore the rule, most have switched to paper and/or incentivized reusing your own bags.
how in the world do they enforce that?
26 Mar 22
@sh76 saidIn L.A. they charge a dime for a bag.
They can't enforce it 100% of the time, but most supermarkets comply. I live in New York and, while some supermarkets simply ignore the rule, most have switched to paper and/or incentivized reusing your own bags.
26 Mar 22
It’s a problematic issue.
Small steps have been taken (like less plastic bags), but overal consumption is heavily based on plastics. For the very reason they’re nasty: they last long.
I heard about the micro-plastics on the radio yesterday. The reporter finished by saying: “Nobody yet knows if the mircro-plastics in humans are harmful, but the researcher says it’s bad news and unhealthy anyway.”
An issue for another thread, maybe: Has humanity as it is peaked? And what’s coming next.
26 Mar 22
@vivify saidProblem is that since Australia has brought it the banning of single use bags, plastic production for the plastic bags has increased, not decreased. ( I have 2 sons that work in the industry ). Many people refuse to return with their bags and simply buy as many bags as needed each time. Those bags need to be reused way over 20 times, more like 50 times to break even. The ban does not work as well as they would have you believe.
Okay, I shouldn't have brought that up.
New York state banned the use of single-use plastic bags, like plastic grocery bags. More laws like that should be passed.
I wholeheartedly agree that plastic usage is a major problem ( the biggest environmental problem bar none and the only one I care about at all ) that requires urgent action, but not knee jerk actions like banning "just" single use bags.
BTW it is not so much plastic that causes the problems as its disposal. That needs to be addressed.
Also the biggest, by far, source of micro-plastics is in your washing, Not plastic bags.
Remember, there is no money to be made banning washing.
if you really care, thats what needs to be addressed, clothes 1st, not plastic bags.
26 Mar 22
@athousandyoung saidIn Aussie most big supermarkets charge 15 cents but you get a "reusable" bag. Many simply buy new ones each time not caring about the cost. much easier than toting bags around all the time.
In L.A. they charge a dime for a bag.
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26 Mar 22
@vivify saidAnother by-product of unregulated Capitalism.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human-blood-for-first-time
Microplastics found in human blood for first time
Microplastic pollution has been detected in human blood for the first time, with scientists finding the tiny particles in almost 80% of the people tested.
The discovery shows the particles can travel arou ...[text shortened]... hat babies fed with plastic bottles are swallowing millions of microplastic particles a day.
Anyone recall large brown, paper, grocery bags?
Worked just fine, didn't they?
What about returnable bottles......We kids used to collect 'em for the refund.
Paper straws?, Wax paper? Products that actually came in jars.
The 'big corps' have stepped in and showed us, 'better living thru chemistry.'
We bought it..........''Newton's second law(?)?''
26 Mar 22
@jimm619 saidUnregulated capitalism??
Another by-product of unregulated Capitalism.
Anyone recall large brown, paper, grocery bags?
Worked just fine, didn't they?
What about returnable bottles......We kids used to collect 'em for the refund.
Paper straws?, Wax paper? Products that actually came in jars.
The 'big corps' have stepped in and showed us, 'better living thru chemistry.'
We bought it..........''Newton's second law(?)?''
This is probably the only "green" problem that I am fully on board with but the markets drive this. regulating the banning of single use bags, fail. People here will not see it but I present it as true. I am 100% for paper bags and the large chains simply refusing so put groceries in "any" plastic bag. But what do you propose needs regulating. ban synthetics in clothing, vegans would have a field day. You washing your clothes is the biggest source of micro-plastics. Meats stored in plastic allows us to store it much longer and we waste a lot less food because of plastic. Plastic is way over used but damn hard to say where to cut back in any substantial way.
Regulate, regulate, regulate, not so sure. And I am not anti government regulating some things but it should not be a default position.
27 Mar 22
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@athousandyoung said15 cents here, and the bags are paper; they barely make it to the car (and often don't).
In L.A. they charge a dime for a bag.
Of course, the law is only about plastic. They don't have to charge for the paper. But it's a way to make more money.
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27 Mar 22
@sh76 saidbusinesses have to make a profit, paper cost more than plastic. You direct your complaint at the wrong party.
15 cents here, and the bags are paper; they barely make it to the car (and often don't).
Of course, the law is only about plastic. They don't have to charge for the paper. But it's a way to make more money.
30 Mar 22
1 edit
@jimmac saidRight, the markets should be driving this. Let's dig into that a bit. Where does plastic come from?
Unregulated capitalism??
This is probably the only "green" problem that I am fully on board with but the markets drive this. regulating the banning of single use bags, fail. People here will not see it but I present it as true. I am 100% for paper bags and the large chains simply refusing so put groceries in "any" plastic bag. But what do you propose needs regulating. ban sy ...[text shortened]... o sure. And I am not anti government regulating some things but it should not be a default position.
From governments around the world, the fossil fuel industry receives more than $5 trillion in subsidies. This is mostly to keep prices of oil gas down, artificially deflating the cost of plastic manufacturing. It's good for the economy, but its a "market" in the same way a 5 year olds' lemonade stand is.
Since oil companies are being given all these government subsidies to produce cheap stuff that will never degrade, and just accumulates in the ocean until the ocean is gone, then shouldn't they be the ones responsible for cleaning up their own garbage? Maybe not, but certainly they should answer the question: Why are your products ending up in my blood stream without my consent?