04 Dec 10
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Originally posted by CliffLandinThat's question begging; why is it an appropriate "punishment" for a criminal act to not be able to vote? Voting is a right in the US, not a privilege.
well, I think that they are being punished for their crimes and part of that punishment, while not part of the sentencing, is to not have the privilege of voting.
An incarcerated person remains someone possessing fundamental rights; of course, they temporarily forfeit some rights which are part of being in jail (liberty obviously, privacy to a large extent, etc.). But there is nothing intrinsic to being in jail that would make voting difficult or causes security issues; a simple absentee ballot could be provided.
EDIT: I was just told by someone who works as a counsellor at a county jail in NY that inmates are allowed to vote unless they are convicted felons.
04 Dec 10
Originally posted by CliffLandinI just wondered because many mamy of those with left winged paranio seem to think that illegals should be made citizens.
Really?! Let's have some more of your right winged, illegal alien paranoia.
My criteria, is that one must be 18, so you'll have to wait a few more years, and one must be a citizen.
EDIT: And you must be registered. Pretty simple, actually.
04 Dec 10
Originally posted by no1marauderYour vote should be weighted by how much tax you pay, this would become a self correcting system, where those paying the most would vote their tax down but this would reduce the effect of their vote.
That's question begging; why is it an appropriate "punishment" for a criminal act to not be able to vote? Voting is a right in the US, not a privilege.
An incarcerated person remains someone possessing fundamental rights; of course, they temporarily forfeit some rights which are part of being in jail (liberty obviously, privacy to a l ...[text shortened]... lor at a county jail in NY that inmates are allowed to vote unless they are convicted felons.
At present the system is ass backwards, people that pay less out number people that pay more so they just keep dipping the pockets of the wealthy. Criminals are going to vote for candidates that go light on crime or promise cushy jails.
04 Dec 10
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Originally posted by WajomaSo what. The criminal population doesn't form a majority by itself. They won't get the cushy jails unless enough of the rest of the society backs the same position - to form a majority. What's wrong with their opinion?
Criminals are going to vote for candidates that go light on crime or promise cushy jails.
It seems wrong to remove a minority of the population's right to vote simply because some other segment of the population disagrees with their views. Should we ban the rights of all catholics to vote because 80% of the population isn't catholic?
The argument that removing the right to vote is a punishment holds slightly more water with me. But that too sounds a little odd. I really doubt most inmates could give a damn. Being stuck in prison is just slightly more significant, no?
04 Dec 10
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Originally posted by WajomaWe have a democracy not the plutocracy you would prefer. Laissez faire nuts like yourself might think that rich people should get more votes than the peasants, but I think we've left such elitist ideas behind.
Your vote should be weighted by how much tax you pay, this would become a self correcting system, where those paying the most would vote their tax down but this would reduce the effect of their vote.
At present the system is ass backwards, people that pay less out number people that pay more so they just keep dipping the pockets of the wealthy. Criminals are going to vote for candidates that go light on crime or promise cushy jails.
04 Dec 10
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Originally posted by Wajoma[absurdist reaction alert] LOL!! And the rich would be lobbying constantly to pay less taxes so they could have less political clout? People would be likely to seek some level of taxation that maximized their ability to vote effectively for...less taxation? And if their tax level dropped below that optimum level, then: “Please, sir, can I pay some more?” ROFL! [/absurdist reaction]
Your vote should be weighted by how much tax you pay, this would become a self correcting system, where those paying the most would vote their tax down but this would reduce the effect of their vote.
At present the system is ass backwards, people that pay less out number people that pay more so they just keep dipping the pockets of the wealthy. Criminals are going to vote for candidates that go light on crime or promise cushy jails.
04 Dec 10
Originally posted by whodeyIf they become citizens, then, by all means, they can vote. Then they also wouldn't be illegals. They would be citizens. Would you deny a citizen of the U.S. the right to vote?
I just wondered because many mamy of those with left winged paranio seem to think that illegals should be made citizens.
04 Dec 10
Originally posted by joneschrAnd if the majority happen to think it's ok to wander into your house and clean it out? That makes it right eh. Even if their influence is small they have shown their utter disregard for your right to live your life free from force, threats of force and fraud. They have displayed an inability as so they are removed from society to protect us, that includes protecting us from their whacky ideas like stealing, murder and burglarising is A Ok.
So what. The criminal population doesn't form a majority by itself. They won't get the cushy jails unless enough of the rest of the society backs the same position - to form a majority. What's wrong with their opinion?
It seems wrong to remove a minority of the population's right to vote simply because some other segment of the population disagrees wi ...[text shortened]... st inmates could give a damn. Being stuck in prison is just slightly more significant, no?
04 Dec 10
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Originally posted by whodeyDo you know anyone that came to this country illegally? I do. I grew up in Miami and have friends, both Haitian and Cuban, that came here illegally when they were very young. They have their citizenship now. Would you deny them the right to vote? Is that what you were trying to imply?
I just wondered because many mamy of those with left winged paranio seem to think that illegals should be made citizens.
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by WajomaIt's also the reason laissez faire capitalism can't work within a democratic framework.
At present the system is ass backwards, people that pay less out number people that pay more so they just keep dipping the pockets of the wealthy. Criminals are going to vote for candidates that go light on crime or promise cushy jails.
05 Dec 10
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Originally posted by Wajoma....when has the democratic majority ever followed through with such a threat in a nation such as the US...?
And if the majority happen to think it's ok to wander into your house and clean it out? That makes it right eh. Even if their influence is small they have shown their utter disregard for your right to live your life free from force, threats of force and fraud. They have displayed an inability as so they are removed from society to protect us, that includes protecting us from their whacky ideas like stealing, murder and burglarising is A Ok.
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by no1marauderWe have a Representative Republic.
We have a democracy not the plutocracy you would prefer. Laissez faire nuts like yourself might think that rich people should get more votes than the peasants, but I think we've left such elitist ideas behind.