New York transit workers: Good for them!

Originally posted by Wajoma
What you should be asking is how do all those that no longer have the opportunity to work (thanks to high min) cope.

While Nemesio's post is great, I have a question for you...

Which of these scenarios would you prefer?
1) Every member of YOUR family works 16 hours a day 7 days a week for a total of 112 working hours per week. Including kids aged 12 and up. YOUR mother alone holds down 3 jobs, leaving the care of the under 12s to YOUR infirm granny. The total combined income is $20K.

2) Only YOUR father works. He works 40 hours a week. His total income is $20K. YOUR mother now has time to raise her children. YOUR siblings now can enjoy their childhood AND their parents. YOUR granny can retire and await death in peace.

Which would YOU prefer? Is this truly negative unemployment, or is that "unemployment" vital to the family unit and the wellbeing and happiness of a nation's citizens?

I can imagine you getting stimulated watching the productivity of the munitions factories that the concentration camp workers used to work in. And hey, if they didn't like the job, they always have the option to stop working. Brilliant!!! 🙄

D

Originally posted by shavixmir
Why?

Why not get what they want and the bosses and shareholders can piss off and find themselves a proper job.
After all...the poor down trodden workers are the ones actually WORKING/PRODUCING/DRIVING?etc...

What makes you think that just because someone is making good wages they aren't working and producing?

Originally posted by kirksey957
What makes you think that just because someone is making good wages they aren't working and producing?

I'm not saying they don't work (or I shouldn't anyways). I mean let's be honest they probably have business lunches, hotel lodgings, golf games to network, etc.
So, yes. I'm pretty sure they do work.

However, they're not really producing anything, are they? That's what I mean.

Originally posted by Wajoma
There is an abundance of people that can do such mundane work as speed the choo choo up and slow the choo choo down.

I'm sure your parents are real proud to have spawned you...

Originally posted by shavixmir
I'm not saying they don't work (or I shouldn't anyways). I mean let's be honest they probably have business lunches, hotel lodgings, golf games to network, etc.
So, yes. I'm pretty sure they do work.

However, they're not really producing anything, are they? That's what I mean.

Ok, I'll grant you that they may not be on the assembly line, but for the average business owner, it is his/her money that they have put up as risk to run the business. Let's give them a little appreciation for this risk. Let me ask you this. Would you consider $70,000-$100,000 a year sufficient salary to pay a worker on an assembly line putting together a Toyota Camry?

Originally posted by kirksey957
Ok, I'll grant you that they may not be on the assembly line, but for the average business owner, it is his/her money that they have put up as risk to run the business. Let's give them a little appreciation for this risk. Let me ask you this. Would you consider $70,000-$100,000 a year sufficient salary to pay a worker on an assembly line putting together a Toyota Camry?

The business owner puts up the capital, and there is an element of risk in this, so capitalism rewards them for the risk - they make a profit.
Equally, the worker puts up her/his labour and is rewarded for this.

The business owner tries to maximise the return on their capital, and one way to do this is to peg back costs, the worker tries to maximise the return on their labour. Their interests are diametrically opposed. so this sort of conflict is perfectly natural in a capitalist economy.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Ok, I'll grant you that they may not be on the assembly line, but for the average business owner, it is his/her money that they have put up as risk to run the business. Let's give them a little appreciation for this risk. Let me ask you this. Would you consider $70,000-$100,000 a year sufficient salary to pay a worker on an assembly line putting together a Toyota Camry?

I don't know what the cost of living is.

However, I would assume that everyone should be paid the same. Certainly not having a select group receiving 10x as high a pay as the assembly line workers.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
That's all fine and good until YOU are that worker, and YOU have YOUR mortgage to pay and YOUR children to feed. Wanna reconsider that? How many people do things in your life that you can't or won't do yourself? Don't they deserve a decent wage too?

scottish, I am the worker - the worker that has spent half my working life as a union member listening to the union BS, and the other half as an independent contractor i.e. no minmum rate, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no overtime rate, no safety equipment supplied.

I'll never go back to the union BS

Who is responsible for taking on the mortage? who is responsible for bringing the kiddies into the world? These are not automatic qualifications for a "decent wage". Your choice of career, honesty, dedication, effort are qualifications for a "decent wage".

Originally posted by Nemesio
I assume you mean the increased minimum wage which allows a person
to earn about $20,000 a year on a full-time workload...

Nemesio

You'd assume wrong then.

I mean any law that prohibits the voluntary exchange of value for value...that the best person to assign a value for their time is that person themself.

You've worded the statement incorrectly, people are "allowed" to earn "about $20,000" regardless of what arbritrary rate the minimum is. Here is the correct wording:

I assume you mean the increased minmum wage which bans a person from earning less than $20,000 a year on a full-time workload.

Also, it is not "clear that employment rates have not suffered from any statistically significant standpoint." "statistically significant standpoint" is about as wishy washy as you can get.

Originally posted by shavixmir
I'm sure your parents are real proud to have spawned you...

My philosophy is based on the premise that humans should be able to live their lives free from force, threats of force and fraud. So yes I do believe my folks are proud of me.

Driving those trains is so mundane that all those drivers are about to be replaced by machines anyway, pulling this strike stunt will merely bring on the demise of their jobs that much sooner.

Originally posted by shavixmir
I don't know what the cost of living is.

However, I would assume that everyone should be paid the same. Certainly not having a select group receiving 10x as high a pay as the assembly line workers.

Why should they care if someone is making 10x higher? I think $70-100,000 is sufficient. Does it concern you that the land mass of the United States far exceeds that of the Netherlands? Should this be so?

Originally posted by Wajoma
scottish, I am the worker - the worker that has spent half my working life as a union member listening to the union BS, and the other half as an independent contractor i.e. no minmum rate, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no overtime rate, no safety equipment supplied.

I'll never go back to the union BS

Who is responsible for taking on the mortage? who ...[text shortened]... ". Your choice of career, honesty, dedication, effort are qualifications for a "decent wage".

Oh, so basically you're saying that these people don't do important enough jobs to get a good salary then? Try telling that to all those guys and girls walking to work yesterday... I think transport workers deserve a fair pay - they put up with alot of crap, and typically work hard for their money. I don't think they expect a 20% pay rise and share options, just a little bit of recognition for earning all the profit they have - they're obviously working efficiently and well.

Originally posted by Wajoma
scottish, I am the worker - the worker that has spent half my working life as a union member listening to the union BS, and the other half as an independent contractor i.e. no minmum rate, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no overtime rate, no safety equipment supplied.

I'll never go back to the union BS

Who is responsible for taking on the mortage? who ...[text shortened]... ". Your choice of career, honesty, dedication, effort are qualifications for a "decent wage".

You must be my identical twin!
Are you a carpenter? Because I think you just hit the nail on the head!
Well done.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Why should they care if someone is making 10x higher? I think $70-100,000 is sufficient. Does it concern you that the land mass of the United States far exceeds that of the Netherlands? Should this be so?

Why that's just not fair! There should be no "countries" and we should all live on the same peaceful planet that we "own" together as one giant collective.
Haven't you been paying attention Rev?😉

Originally posted by kirksey957
Why should they care if someone is making 10x higher? I think $70-100,000 is sufficient. Does it concern you that the land mass of the United States far exceeds that of the Netherlands? Should this be so?

So if $100,000 is sufficient for the assembly line worker, why isn't it sufficient for the CEO? Why does the CEO get $10 million instead?