Originally posted by no1marauderI don't like how both parties are so easily bought either. While I do think that business interests do have an effect on a war, I'm not convinced that business is the only reason America goes to war.
The elites that the two parties answer to support an aggressive foreign policy to protect and expand US business interests regardless of the cost in human life. The American people by and large don't. So they had to be hoodwinked into supporting the decision to go to war in the first place (most countries' people usually have to be) and have been quicker ...[text shortened]... othing (thus keeping the sponsors of the parties happy) while kow-towing to popular sentiment.
One of the reasons I think that Americans aren't all that worried about going to war with a country like Iraq is because of confidence in our forces. Kill ratios are extremely high. Heck, even being ambushed is not a big deal to the soldiers being ambushed. They see it as a target rich environment has presented itself. Hence the quote, "They have is surrounded, the poor bastards". 3000+ deaths sucks, but its pretty good for 4 years of war.
War with China on the other hand, is viewed far differently by most people in that respect.
What do you think? Would Americans have been less receptive to war in Iraq if our forces weren't so superior?
Originally posted by MerkI think anybody who seriously believes that soldiers who are ambushed are happy because it's a "target rich environment" is nuts.
I don't like how both parties are so easily bought either. While I do think that business interests do have an effect on a war, I'm not convinced that business is the only reason America goes to war.
One of the reasons I think that Americans aren't all that worried about going to war with a country like Iraq is because of confidence in our forces. Kill rati ...[text shortened]... Would Americans have been less receptive to war in Iraq if our forces weren't so superior?
Originally posted by MerkYour thesis is wrong; Americans were concerned about going to war with Iraq. It took an extensive propaganda campaign filled with lies and half-truths before a majority could be convinced to support the invasion. Of course, the size of the war has an effect on popular support, but Americans don't support invasions of smaller countries just because we can - the government has to come up with a sufficient justification usually by lying.
I don't like how both parties are so easily bought either. While I do think that business interests do have an effect on a war, I'm not convinced that business is the only reason America goes to war.
One of the reasons I think that Americans aren't all that worried about going to war with a country like Iraq is because of confidence in our forces. Kill rati ...[text shortened]... Would Americans have been less receptive to war in Iraq if our forces weren't so superior?
Originally posted by no1marauderThat's a direct quote from a U.S. Marine.
I think anybody who seriously believes that soldiers who are ambushed are happy because it's a "target rich environment" is nuts.
I'm not saying they are happy about it, I'm saying they like to fight. Talk to some Marines. They'll tell you the same thing. It would be hard to find a marine that joined for the college money, the other branches have a better program in that regard.
Originally posted by MerkThat's bluster. I've talked to a lot of Marines; they're all full of crap.
That's a direct quote from a U.S. Marine.
I'm not saying they are happy about it, I'm saying they like to fight. Talk to some Marines. They'll tell you the same thing. It would be hard to find a marine that joined for the college money, the other branches have a better program in that regard.
Originally posted by no1marauderI see your case. I was just saying that what got American support behind a war in Iraq would not have gotten American support behind a war in China or another country where the casualties would have been higher. I was wondering what your thoughts were on it.
Your thesis is wrong; Americans were concerned about going to war with Iraq. It took an extensive propaganda campaign filled with lies and half-truths before a majority could be convinced to support the invasion. Of course, the size of the war has an effect on popular support, but Americans don't support invasions of smaller countries just because we can - the government has to come up with a sufficient justification usually by lying.
Originally posted by MerkIf the US government wanted to start a campaign to justify a war against China, they could probably get majority support for it within 6 months.
I see your case. I was just saying that what got American support behind a war in Iraq would not have gotten American support behind a war in China or another country where the casualties would have been higher. I was wondering what your thoughts were on it.
Originally posted by no1marauderNice. How do you explain the Marine waiting list to be deployed to Iraq? Bluster? The creation of the Marine version of the Individual Augmentation program so the Marines complaining about not being deployed can be deployed? More bluster?
That's bluster. I've talked to a lot of Marines; they're all full of crap.
Its nice to know what you think of our soldiers though.
Originally posted by MerkBOOHOO. Marines are brainwashed to act in such a manner. The Marines themselves serve no useful military purpose and should be abolished as a separate entity.
Nice. How do you explain the Marine waiting list to be deployed to Iraq? Bluster? The creation of the Marine version of the Individual Augmentation program so the Marines complaining about not being deployed can be deployed? More bluster?
Its nice to know what you think of our soldiers though.
It's expected that right wingers like you will eventually start with the "you hate our troops" crap. I'll check my DD214 to remind me how much I hate those in uniform. Retard.
Your orginal post talked about the attitude of Americans in general, not the attitude of a tiny group indoctrinated to mindlessly accept orders. That's two different groups, buckaroo.
Originally posted by no1marauderWhile the right does sling that around, I've never met anyone that genuinely hates our troops.
BOOHOO. Marines are brainwashed to act in such a manner. The Marines themselves serve no useful military purpose and should be abolished as a separate entity.
It's expected that right wingers like you will eventually start with the "you hate our troops" crap. I'll check my DD214 to remind me how much I hate soldiers. Retard.
Your orgi ...[text shortened]... iny group indoctrinated to mindlessly accept orders. That's two different groups, buckaroo.
I can see your case about the Marines being kind of redundant. No reason the army can't do a beach landing and no reason the air force can't do close air support etc etc.
There you go with the personal insults again. I should have known better than to try and be civil toward you.
Originally posted by MerkYou consider it being civil to suggest an American has hostile feelings toward US troops? I, and most people I know, wouldn't.
While the right does sling that around, I've never met anyone that genuinely hates our troops.
I can see your case about the Marines being kind of redundant. No reason the army can't do a beach landing and no reason the air force can't do close air support etc etc.
There you go with the personal insults again. I should have known better than to try and be civil toward you.
Not all US soldiers are happy to be in the "target rich environment" of Iraq:
After the patrol on Thursday, Sgt. Michael Hiler, 26, stepped down from his Humvee and described the day's effort as "stupid."
‘Good riddance’
"We should have pulled out a long time ago," Hiler said. "It's going to take the hand of God to change anything about what we do here, which is nothing. This country's going to fall apart sooner or later, and at this point I say, 'Good riddance.' "
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16979342/page/2/
Originally posted by no1marauder"I've talked to a lot of Marines; they're all full of crap."
You consider it being civil to suggest an American has hostile feelings toward US troops? I, and most people I know, wouldn't.
That's your quote, not mine. I never said I thought you were hostile toward American troops, I said it was nice to know what you thought of our troops.