Organic vs Inorganic farming

Originally posted by flyUnity
For some reason, Im somehow not believing that. I'm betting that whoever (if anyone) did that study, said that for political purposes. And like ATY said, I dont see how It would help the immune system. (except maybe for that specific pesticide). Google it, There are many studies done that proves Pestisides are harmful for intake

yeah, I aggree... I mean, I'm not a farmer or a scientist, but I read part of that paper and it seemed to have a grudge against what it saw as "occult", which I'd never acctually associated with organic farming. Also, conclusions drawn are that organic appears to be better, but it's only because conventional farms are poorly managed??

besides, I can taste the difference. this study says something about blind taste tests indicating people can't tell the difference, but I don't know who these people are. Taste is very subjective. Were they smokers? what do they usually eat? I think you can really tell the difference in oranges. that's my personal feeling anyway.

I'll also defer to my intuition which tells me that pesticides are not good for my body. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to risk it.

Originally posted by flyUnity
For some reason, Im somehow not believing that. I'm betting that whoever (if anyone) did that study, said that for political purposes. And like ATY said, I dont see how It would help the immune system. (except maybe for that specific pesticide). Google it, There are many studies done that proves Pestisides are harmful for intake

no. many studies no support the idea that small amounts of toxic substances actually improve our health, by coaxing the body to produce detoxifying machinery. these substances can be synthetic, like pesticides, or natural, like phtyotoxins. incidently, natural toxins form a large part of the human toxin burden, and are often far worse for you. for more info, http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-slides-self/facts/gen-pubre-carcin-wilkinson.html

Originally posted by flyUnity
For some reason, Im somehow not believing that. I'm betting that whoever (if anyone) did that study, said that for political purposes. And like ATY said, I dont see how It would help the immune system. (except maybe for that specific pesticide). Google it, There are many studies done that proves Pestisides are harmful for intake

why not just read Anthony Trewavas' paper I posted a link to above?

Or look at this link from the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/03/13/do1304.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/03/13/ixop.html

"There is evidence that low concentrations of many toxic chemicals may actually have a beneficial effect. Examples are, of course, familiar. A small dose of aspirin mitigates a headache and can help prevent heart attacks, but a larger dose can kill. It is not generally realised that this dose-related effect is also known to apply to many supposedly toxic chemicals, including arsenic, dioxins, some pesticides and fungicides. In fact, a little bit of poison or pollution can do you good, and serves to reduce the incidence of cancer. More than 30 separate investigations of about 500,000 people have shown that farmers, millers, pesticide-users, and foresters, occupationally exposed to much higher levels of pesticide than the general public, have much lower rates of cancer overall."

Originally posted by Darth Sponge
yeah, I aggree... I mean, I'm not a farmer or a scientist, but I read part of that paper and it seemed to have a grudge against what it saw as "occult", which I'd never acctually associated with organic farming. Also, conclusions drawn are that organic appears to be better, but it's only because conventional farms are poorly managed??

besides, I c ...[text shortened]... at pesticides are not good for my body. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to risk it.

Tastes better??

Can we say "placebo effect" people?

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Organic is better. Definitely. You can farm all types of organs. Inorganic, well, you're limited to in-organs.

So what typy of farm is it in Texas Chainsaw Mas.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Tastes better??

Can we say "placebo effect" people?

I don't disagree that a small dose of toxins can beneficial, but our bodies are overwhelmed with toxins beyond pesticides. Like I said, avoiding pesticides is a risk I'm willing to take.

and maybe it is a placebo effect. I'm willing to test it. I'll do a blind taste test (edit: not on myself of course, but my non-organic eating housemates- I'll let you know how it turns out) I make alot of juice, and since switching to organic fuits I've noticed a disticitve difference in the quality of the fruit or vegetable itself as well as the taste. The colors are more vibrant, and consistency of the material is stronger, and to me, the tastes are stronger, fuller. I notice it most in chard, lettuce and oranges. freshness matters always, but there is a definite difference between organically grown food and chemically fertilized food. I mean, just because someone writes a paper saying "organic food is not better than conventional" doesn't make it true. when I began buying organic oranges to juice, i noticed a distinct difference. but I could be a lunatic, so you might want to try for yourself.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
why not just read Anthony Trewavas' paper I posted a link to above?

Or look at this link from the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/03/13/do1304.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/03/13/ixop.html

"There is evidence that low concentrations of many toxic chemicals may actually have a beneficial effect. Examples are, ...[text shortened]... higher levels of pesticide than the general public, have much lower rates of cancer overall."

Yea I read your link already, but I still believe that we are getting way to much Pesticides and other junkin our food already, we dont need more. Organic IMHO is better. About the taste test, I sure can tell the difference between a store bought carrot, and a home grown carrot, I cant even stand store bought vegatables, but I love garden vegtables. Maybe its just me

Originally posted by Darth Sponge
I don't disagree that a small dose of toxins can beneficial, but our bodies are overwhelmed with toxins beyond pesticides. Like I said, avoiding pesticides is a risk I'm willing to take.

and maybe it is a placebo effect. I'm willing to test it. I'll do a blind taste test (edit: not on myself of course, but my non-organic eating housemates- I'll le ...[text shortened]... a distinct difference. but I could be a lunatic, so you might want to try for yourself.

Of course, there's always the possibility that more care is taken of the fruit and vegetables because they are known to be a premium product, capable of generating far more revenue than their ordinary counterparts.

It's everyones right to make their choices what they want to eat but it's also an undeniable truth that organic farming is less efficient, especially in terms of land area utilisation, and has detrimental long term effects on soil fertility. With a population set to exceed 10 billion in the next hundred years, where is the food going to come from if not intensive agriculture??

Originally posted by flyUnity
Yea I read your link already, do you want me to give you a list of links that says Pesticides causes cancers? I still dont believe that low amounts of pestiside boosts you inmune system. sorry

High doses of pesticides do cause cancer, but there is no evidence that low concentrations have any negative effects whatsoever. indeed, there is positive data to suggest they're actually good for you. Feel free to disregard the science if you choose.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Tastes better??

Can we say "placebo effect" people?

The difference in taste between the produce available at my local supermarket and the organic produce I have delivered to me is marked. The first time I ate a butternut from my garden, I thought a taste bomb had gone off in my mouth.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
The difference in taste between the produce available at my local supermarket and the organic produce I have delivered to me is marked. The first time I ate a butternut from my garden, I thought a taste bomb had gone off in my mouth.

You sure they're the same variety of butternut?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
You sure they're the same variety of butternut?

They grew spontaneously so the seeds must have come from something I ate!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
it's also an undeniable truth that organic farming is less efficient, especially in terms of land area utilisation, and has detrimental long term effects on soil fertility. With a population set to exceed 10 billion in the next hundred years, where is the food going to come from if not intensive agriculture??

I don't think you can say this is an "undeniable truth" (especially on the basis of one study from some random academic). If organic farming ruins the soil, how have humans farmed successfully for the last 10000 years or so? "efficiency" seems to me to be a management problem, and the paper seemed to imply that farm managment on both sides had the most impact on efficiency.

that paper also seemed very motivated to discredit organic farming (once again, the constant negative references to "the occult" aspects of organic farming were a little wierd. And in lieu of actual data, I saw alot of assertions backed up by only by [references to studies I don't have time to look up].

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Organic is better. Definitely. You can farm all types of organs.

Great times for Nemesio.